TracyRX7

Race driving is a lot like golf, its not too hard to be decent at it but its really hard to go that last 10-20%. If you practice a good amount for a couple of years you'll reach that 80-90% number (depending on your natural talent and even with natural talent its going to take a year or two).

Back to the subject we're on a really good thing to focus on is even if the tires are screeching through a corner and you're "at the limit of traction" doesn't mean you are taking the corner as fast as you can take it. Your total traction has many factors, how balanced is the car? Did you brake smooth so the car is level or did you have to plow the brakes so you're nosed in and oversteering? Did you try to turn too hard and late so too much of the weight is on the outside of the car? Did you start to accelerate too soon and squeel out of the corner?

Even after you've got all that figured out did you analyze the track right and pick the best line? You could drive your line with the perfect braking, turning, and acceleration and it still might be the 'wrong line' and somebody else drives their line at 80% of perfection and it ends up faster. Many different types of corners exist and in an autocross its even more complicated because rarely can you look at a corner by itself (on a track its mostly corner + length of straight following it); most often the autocross track is a few sets of many corners linked together.

Then you have car setup as most of us weekend drivers don't have our own chief mechanic and pit crew. Tire pressure, sway bar settings, alignment, all of these you can setup on your stock car. If you get a bit more advanced you might have coil-over or adjustable shocks, you might play with your brake bias, and more (yes you have all the engine tuning that makes horsepower but that isn't really as complicated as the rest of the car setup, for engine tuning its more reliable area under torque curve for the RPM range you'll be driving in is better).

If you really think you're driving your car "as good as possible" I suggest you ask one of the better drivers at the autocross to take you for a ride in your or their car (if your car let them have 2 runs so they can get the feel of it, try to find somebody that drives the same or a similar car [i.e. Corvette driver to drive your RX-7 not a Mini Cooper driver]). I think you'll be in for a big surprise on how fast you can go.

Fatman0203

See thats really my only problem with auto-x though. I know I need to improve my driving a bit, but how am I supposed to do that with just a few minutes out there? Know what I mean? I want to find out if I can rent out the same parking lot and/or for what price. Then just get like 20 or 30 guys out there, pay a bit more and thats it.

TracyRX7

Quality vs. Quantity, same applies to learning golf. If you go to the driving range and hit 300 ***** wrong all you're doing is enforcing bad habits thus making it harder to get better.

I read a lot about driving theory and track analysis between events. I then pick on one or maybe two things I want to see if I can focus really hard on doing perfect next time out. I also try to get rides with the top rank drivers we have in my region during the fun runs. I watch what they do different than I do and spend a lot of time visualizing how I could try to incorporate some of the things they did into my runs and my driving.

I believe too much seat time on a single day is very detrimental since you don't have time to analyze what you did and you end the day with some much data in your head, so many mistakes that you can't go back over the runs and visualize what it should have felt/looked like if you did it correctly. If you want a lot of hours of 'free' seat time go find a mountain 2 lane highway with a 55 mph speed limit (might be hard to do near Miami) and see if you can drive it at the speed limit (I don't suggest doing this until you understand the limits of your car and I really don't suggest pushing up to that 55 mph number on corners that are "off the edge corners" with no guard rail).

DamonB

www.autocross.com/evolution

Best driving schools there are. You'll make 30 or so passes in your car in one afternoon and every single one of them will be with a national caliber driver either coaching you from inside your car or debreifing you as soon as you cross the finish line. I did Phase 1 and Phase 2 my second season and they helped me tremendously.

Fatman0203

Yes heard of them, theres quite a few drivers in my area, Im waiting for them to get around to my area.

Damon whats the MOST mods you can do to the FD to stay in stock SS class? Are slicks allowed? Swar bars? Springs? etc etc?

DamonB

Stock:

As a rough guide, if your car has modifications beyond this list it is not eligible for Stock Category:
Anything available on the exact model and year of your car as standard or optional equipment, as installed on the factory assembly line (nothing available only dealer-installed is allowed), plus
Standard OEM identical replacement parts
Accessories, gauges, appearance, comfort, and convenience items (not replacement driver's seat, though) that basically don't help
Added roll bar or roll cage to spec (not required, though)
Driver harness (no cutting seats to install, though)
Trailer hitch and/or tow bar mountings
Any wheel of diameter and width identical to a stock or factory optional wheel, offset within +- 0.25 inch
Most street legal tires that will fit the mounted wheels and stock bodywork
Any shock absorber of the same type and mounting as original; no change to standard spring mountings is allowed; suspension geometry may not be altered; gas or hydraulic shocks are permitted
Any brake linings; pre-1992 cars may use solid/braided metal brake lines.
Any front anti-roll bar (no change to stock/optional rear anti-roll bar, if present)
Manufacturer specified ignition settings only
Any replacement air filter element (or removal of air filter element); no plumbing changes, however
Engine bored no more than .020"; no balancing or porting/polishing of head
Replacement of any part of the exhaust system past the catalytic converter (if quiet)
Any oil filter
Added clutch scattershield

In a nutshell there are no engine mods whatsoever allowed: Stock intake, stock ecu, stock fuel, stock turbos, stock boost etc. For suspension you can run custom double adjustable shocks but they must use the stock springs and be welded to stock ride height. You can run an aftermarket front sway bar. You can run race rubber but only on stock sized wheels. There are no brake mods allowed.

If the item is not listed here as being allowed it is NOT allowed in stock! A downpipe kicks you out. Non-stock suspension bushings (aftermarket toe links) kick you out. Non-stock seats or body panels (putting an R1 lip on a base model for instance) kick you out. No updating or backdating is allowed (you can't use '99 spec turbos unless your car was built in '99 or later and originally equipped with them). Thems the rules for stock. Don't like 'em? Run in another class

mosre classing info here

Fatman0203

What class would that throw me in? The modified or something? Ive seen the DOT tires you mention its like someone got an exacto knife and carved a line on them =P. Ok sounds good stock it is.

DamonB

Depends on the mods. Read the rules.

Most popular FD classes are SS (stock class), ASP (street prepared class) or SM2 (street mod 2 seat class).

Most of the cars you see here on this site with Power FC, intercooler, some suspension work etc are only going to be legal for SM2.

Street Prepared rules

Street Mod rules

RedR1

iTrader: (5)

I am just steadily reading the information, thanks everyone for the great information. Also DamonB, thanks for the great links! They are holding auto-X event's at a decommed military base here, and i'm just doing as much research as possible, as this will be my first event. I mainly want to go out there and:

A- Learn my car's limits (as much as i can with limited laps)

B- Have fun

The main thing that everyone has told me, even wil road racers, is to envision the next turn while your in your current one.

Thanks again
Chris-

Section8

iTrader: (6)

So I'm guessing my car should actually be in ASP since i've got a downpipe and SS brake lines.

DamonB

Yep. To be fast you have to be looking and thinking at least one turn ahead (at least a couple in autox) while at the same time dealing with the turn you're in now. When a newb you're using all your brain capacity just trying to figure out what's going on right now, let alone what's coming. Usually a beginner's brain is still trying to figure out what happen-ed a moment ago and never makes it to the part that is happen-ing Once you become experienced and get acclimated things will seem to happen more slowly even though you're going twice as fast.

Umrswimr

:iagree:

It's really scary once you finally master the "looking ahead" part. All the cones seem to disappear and it's like you're in this weird fog- everything in front of you is perfectly clear. Everything next to and behind you is a blur.

Sometimes, however, the course designer puts so many cones out there that it becomes difficult to pick out the "important" cones among the sea of them at speed. I personally HATE it when they do that. It makes it easier for the novices to find their way through the course (less confusion and fewer DNFs), but it makes it a LOT more difficult for those folks trying to look ahead at the next corner.

Actually, I've gotten myself into trouble a couple times- I've hit cones in a corner because I was looking TOO far ahead. Your hands follow where your eyes are looking. Just be sure you're far enough THROUGH the corner before you look ahead so you don't hit the stupid cones...

DamonB

That's the reason I have only run with the local BMW and Porsche clubs once. Their courses all seem to be made of gates with a cone on the left and on the right; one gate after another. Looking through a curve at all of those things can be confusing as hell. Single pointers on the inside are much better IMO.

Fatman0203

Yup that was me lol =P, I went out of course because I wasnt looking ahead enough.

DamonB

It's hard. When I first started I was so tense and nervous just trying to memorize the course. Drive? I couldn't drive. It took all I could do just to figure out where the hell I should be going! My first autox ever was on a giant course and it was raining so all the lines were washed off. Out of 6 runs I think I DNF'd my first three.

After you do a few your brain just begins to recognize things and it's not nearly as confusing.

Section8

iTrader: (6)

I actually fell victim to exactly this at my first autox 2 weeks ago. I got the car out of shape in the slalom trying to go too fast, and all I could think of was getting the car under control and setup for the next turn. Well I made the turn but then realized i had started another lap and I should have exited the slalom on the other side and ended my run LOL.

Fatman0203

One sec....

Ok here you go


Thats the auto-x


This is my mistake.

adam c

iTrader: (2)

Lots of good info here from experienced people. Looks like I'm late to the party (didn't get an invitation ).

There is an awful lot to be learned from autocrossing that will help you to handle your car in an emergency........without panicking!! One of the most important things you will learn, is how to stop your car quickly WITHOUT locking up the brakes. This has helped me avoid accidents on numerous occasions. When you lock up the brakes, your car won't stop as fast, and you can't turn. Autocrossing teaches you a lot that applies to everyday driving.

PureSephiroth

um, I can't afford to take my car to the track. Nor would I be willing with my limited driving experience. Autocross is a hell of a lot more friendly than a race track. At the autocross the worst thing I can do is nail a cone, at the track I could roll... besides, autocrossing is every bit as competitive as track racing!

f/p79

Fatman 0203; I agree that autocross can be a huge investment of time for a relatively small amount of seat time. The SCCA events in which I have raced are just that. However you might check for other non SCCA clubs in your area. The club to which I belong (Pikes Peak Sports Car Club), runs events where we have 6-8 runs. I measured the last course at over 4300 ft. We had the course picked up by 2:30. I'm not bad mouthing the SCCA. But events in Denver and Colorado Springs can draw 225 to almost 300 drivers. Those numbers discourage me from participating with them. At their location near Denver International Airport, they have increased the prices for non SCCA drivers. Having that number of drivers makes efficiency a neccessity. That can take some of the fun out it. Arriving at 7am. Staying all day. Makes a long day. Some of the single marque clubs (Vette, Porsche etc), sometimes allow others to race with them.

Fatman0203

Thats what I thougt of , but right now the only private clubs I can find are track only. Im thinking and looking into the cost of starting my own club or how much money it will take to rent the course for the day.

Travis R

I've had friends argue to the contrary, (WARNING: IMHO statement to follow ) but I think autocross is more applicable to everyday driving than road racing/ track days.
Avoid things while traveling between 30 to 60mph. Plus you have anticipate what your car will do at the limit. If you are forced to jerk the wheel one way then back the other way to avoid an accident what's the CAR going to do? What are YOU going to do? What if you hit the brakes in the middle? etc.
And you can practice "looking ahead" on the street.

Travis R

Renting lots can cost anywhere from a couple hundred to a couple thousand per day. That's just for the lot. You are going to need insurance, plus timing equipement/computer and a couple hundred cones... probably a porta-potty or two.
Running an event isn't cheap.

Fatman0203

Ok, thats a valid statement for it and I would enjoy it greatly if I just got a few more runs in thats all.


Well, the insurance is probably the need, and how much is timing equipment? I'd tell my friends see that tree over there? Thats your porta-potty =P. The cones I would "borrow" from a construction zone =P. j/k j/k

Travis R

Timing equipement: www.axwaresystems.com $895 for the entry level set up (timers + software)
For reference, we are looking into holding a divisional in S. Texas. The site owners require us to carry a $5M liability policy.