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This is an interesting topic and I have had to deal with heat rejection with both of my cars. I thought I would share my setups; both are track only.
My FD single turbo has a 19"x26"x3" radiator with a puller fan and the Mazdatrix dual 19 row Mocal oil coolers. The radiator is well ducted. I usually see water temps in the 195-200 range with the oil temp usually around 205.
My 12A bridgeport has a 19"x22"x3" double pass radiator with puller fan with an oil-water heat exchanger. I also run a fluidyne 6"x14"X2 3/4" double pass oil cooler with a puller fan. Again the radiator and oil cooler are well ducted. Here too, I see water temps around 195-200 and oil in the 200-205 range.
With both of these cars I rarely need the puller fans on track, mostly for dyno sessions.
While snooping around the paddock at SCCA club races, I've seen several rotaries with oil-water heat exchange setups. I know of a few (NA 2 rotors) that only run a radiator with oil-water heat exchanger and no stand alone oil cooler.
I know trying to package an oil-water heat exchanger can be challenging, but they work very well at managing the oil temps and might be a solution for some of the situations described in this thread. Of course, you must have a properly setup and functioning radiator with additional heat rejection capacity for this route to be successful.
For oil, I use 20W50 non-synthetic in the turbo car and Redline 40w (15w40) in the 12A bridgeport.
This is an interesting topic and I have had to deal with heat rejection with both of my cars. I thought I would share my setups; both are track only.
My FD single turbo has a 19"x26"x3" radiator with a puller fan and the Mazdatrix dual 19 row Mocal oil coolers. The radiator is well ducted. I usually see water temps in the 195-200 range with the oil temp usually around 205.
My 12A bridgeport has a 19"x22"x3" double pass radiator with puller fan with an oil-water heat exchanger. I also run a fluidyne 6"x14"X2 3/4" double pass oil cooler with a puller fan. Again the radiator and oil cooler are well ducted. Here too, I see water temps around 195-200 and oil in the 200-205 range.
With both of these cars I rarely need the puller fans on track, mostly for dyno sessions.
While snooping around the paddock at SCCA club races, I've seen several rotaries with oil-water heat exchange setups. I know of a few (NA 2 rotors) that only run a radiator with oil-water heat exchanger and no stand alone oil cooler.
I know trying to package an oil-water heat exchanger can be challenging, but they work very well at managing the oil temps and might be a solution for some of the situations described in this thread. Of course, you must have a properly setup and functioning radiator with additional heat rejection capacity for this route to be successful.
For oil, I use 20W50 non-synthetic in the turbo car and Redline 40w (15w40) in the 12A bridgeport.
Cheers,
Guy
I vote you convert the ITE car to STL with either a MZR or NA 13B. But you probably have a your hands full in GT2 with the other one.
Interesting. I go back and forth on the idea of using a water/oil heat exchanger because I don't really have a problem with oil temps (I rarely saw over 190 in the pan, so I stopped bothering to even monitor it) but I'll see coolant temps over 230 on a regular basis. I could fit more radiator in the nose if I didn't have to plumb an oil cooler in front of it. I could also lose 70lb of protective metal ahead of the front axle whose only reason for existence is keeping the oil cooler from getting holed.
Is this a dedicated racing exchanger or the stock series 3 12A heat exchanger?
Added two puller fans yesterday, and test drove it last night. Let it idle in the storage unit for 45 mins. Ambient was 76F outside, probably around 85F inside. Water temps reached a max of 189F and oil temps a maximum of 207F. This is sitting at 2300rpm brapping for 45 mins. So it made a hugeeee difference!
On cruising, at night, with 70F ambient temps, with stop light to stop light and 40mph speed limit. Temps were around 167F water and 195F oil. Maximum I saw last night was 210F.
Haven't gone into boost yet, but deliberately made it a point to rev the sh*t out of it at every opportunity, like winding out each gear to at least 7k. Usually any sustained high rpm would have pushed temps up 220F+
So its safe to conclude that airflow makes a massive difference at low travel speed
Now as far as the measurement positions, I do not have two temp sensors. Only one out of the front cover. So, I hit the front cover fitting w/ IR gun, front cover reads 200F externally when the sensor was showing 205F. If I immediately jump over a measure the temp of the oil filter/pedestal, everything in that general area is 165-185F.
So I really really want to get accurate idea of temps POST coolers. I think there's a huge difference between the two, and maybe my oil temps actually 30F less
What are you using for a water pump, again? No load high water temps with high RPM sounds like a water pump, lower radiator hose, or mismatched pulley problem...
What are you using for a water pump, again? No load high water temps with high RPM sounds like a water pump, lower radiator hose, or mismatched pulley problem...
the pump is electronic, but the temps are always around 180 solid no matter what unless youre sitting
The oil temps were the only to increase with rpm, but everything looking great now w/ fans on the coolers
I need to go an oil temperature gauge, I had noticed during the last rally that I saw coolant temps as high as 220 but I have no idea how the oil is in comparison, engine ran fine and didn't see any overheating issues, it was only a 6 mile stage so a 13 mile stage would make me cautious... and I had to back off a bit but I am using a stock oil cooler.
From my understanding of oil. if you want the oil temps over 212F to burn off water in the oil, but under 240F. That is the sweet spot. you want to run a 0W-30 or 0W-40 oil, The thinnest oil possible at cold temps to increase flow when the engine is cold, and you want a thick enough oil to have enough pressure when it is warm, say 60PSI or a little more.
Higher flowing oil cools better and protects bearings better. The thicker oils when cold kills engines as its too thick to circulate fast enough.
I have been running 0W-30 in my rotaries and the oil looks great and the engine run great. I haven't monitored oil temps but my water temps never exceed 100C in either car. I run the sohn adapters in both.
It doesn't have to be 212F where it enters the engine, and if it's around 240F when it enters the engine you're going to have an expensive time. And 60psi is a frighteningly marginal amount of oil pressure, and with something like an 0W40 you're going to have a lot of the oil volume taken up by viscosity enhancers instead of, you know, oil.
Most of us measure oil temps post cooler(s) which is where the 200F recommendation comes from in the first place. It's much warmer than that post oil pump/pre-cooler. Rated oil viscosity is for oil @ 100C and it certainly goes above that as it circulates through the engine. I have been running 20W-50 Castrol GTX in my track car with no issues and ~90 to 100 PSI. I like the extra head room in viscosity the 50 weight gives me just in case I'm tucked up behind another car for a while or if it's a particular hot and humid day (which happens fairly often in the Midwest).
04-08-17, 12:42 AM
