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Help: Building full time TRACK CAR

Old 12-19-06, 12:41 AM
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Question Help: Building full time TRACK CAR

I'm building a track only FD. This build is from the ground up and I need a little help. I would like to hear what people consider the best option for the following:

1. Coilovers
2. Widest full slick and wheel option on factory body
3. Largest 4 wheel brake package to fit above wheels


I have everything else worked out and started. The above is where I am stuck. I plan to run Hoosiers and mounted on I believe 16 inch wheel. I was hoping to hear from someone that already has experience in this area and could offer some guidance.

I considered using a 285/30/18 setup but now think I want to take it one step further.

Thank you in advance for your time.

m
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Old 12-19-06, 12:51 AM
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How much track experience do you have? How much experience do you have with the FD on the track?

You are going to want to run 17 or 18" wheels to clear larger brakes....the two most common track sizes would be 275/40 17s or 285/30 18s, the 18s give more clearance up front.
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Old 12-19-06, 01:20 AM
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Found what I was looking for in regards to wheels. I will be running the following:

18x10 285/30 (all around)

Thanks.

Still looking for:

1. Reliable and balanced 4 wheel brake and dual master package.
2. Double adjustable coilovers w/ remote reservoirs.
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Old 12-19-06, 01:35 AM
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I don't think there's really anything off the shelf for a 4 wheel brake kit. There's lots of front kits and you can get the RS/RZ rears which are bigger. There's definetely nothing bolt on for a dual MC setup, that'll be custom, but you can just buy a Wilwood/Tilton/AP dual MC pedal and adapt it to the FD firewall.

For the coilovers you're looking at $5k or so for a setup like that. You could adapt some Penske's, or Moton has a set of DA remote shocks for the FD, they're about $5k IIRC. You could also get a company like JRZ or Dynamic to make some for you.

Now here comes the question: Why do you want all this? Because it's the "hot ****"? Or is it because you've surpassed the limits of the car and need to get drastic to go faster?

If it's the first, then forget it, learn to drive better then go radical, untill you're better than the car, it's not what's holding you back. Unless you're a very experianced driver the kind of setup you're looking to get isn't needed and probably won't really help you any, for learning or for going fast. If you are a novice, learn on something else. There's nothing more scary to an instructor than a noob with a super fast car, more often than not they'll crash spectacularly. When learning on a slower car everything happens, well, slower, so it's easier to control and learn. Take it in steps and don't get in over your head.
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Old 12-19-06, 09:04 AM
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Old 12-19-06, 10:13 AM
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17x10 295/30-17
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Old 12-19-06, 11:35 AM
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man that dude needs to update or does he not have the car the 3rd gen anymore
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Old 12-19-06, 12:18 PM
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hmmm penske's

I don't have any 2-ways but I have a set of 3's I'll sell you for $8k...you will neeed to fab. up the bracketry. the best availiable for under $10K
Attached Thumbnails Help: Building full time TRACK CAR-penskeweb.jpg  
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Old 12-19-06, 05:32 PM
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Wink

Originally Posted by Black91n/a
I don't think there's really anything off the shelf for a 4 wheel brake kit. There's definetely nothing bolt on for a dual MC setup, that'll be custom,
I realize there are no actual kits available for all four wheels but I had hoped to get a response from someone who may have already gone this route and wouldn't mind sharing. Tilton is the direction I was thinking also because of availability and my setup will be fairly simple.


Originally Posted by Black91n/a
For the coilovers you're looking at $5k or so for a setup like that. You could adapt some Penske's, or Moton has a set of DA remote shocks for the FD, they're about $5k IIRC.
Thank you, I had seen about the same prices for those kits. Penske or Moton where my first choices also. I had also been looking into Ohlins. Again I hoped to get some opinions as to which are more reliable or common on FDs. I have seen both setups on FDs built for SCCA GT class racing just never really heard how they picked one over the other.


Originally Posted by Black91n/a
Now here comes the question: Why do you want all this? Because it's the "hot ****"? Or is it because you've surpassed the limits of the car and need to get drastic to go faster?
I wish I could say I was the fastest driver or the most capable. I also don't really spend my money on "hot ****". I completely understand what you are saying.

My primary race car is an EProd FB. The FD will allow me to compete in a much faster class. I don't think I will be breaking any records in the FD as I know it will be more of a handful to control but it will be fun to try.

Thanks again!
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Old 12-19-06, 05:35 PM
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Thanks for the offer but that's outside of my price range. I was looking to be under $5000.
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Old 12-19-06, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by SHPNOUT
17x10 295/30-17

Does that fit under the factory bodywork?
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Old 12-19-06, 05:49 PM
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What class are you going to run the FD in? With SCCA, you don't have a lot of options. The only place I know of where you'd even stand a chance of keeping up would be something like ITE, but that varies by region, and you never know what's going to show up. Other than that, there's GT1/2, or you might be able to get into SPU.

Seriously, if you're looking at Penskes, Motons, and the like, I hope you like servicing shocks!
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Old 12-19-06, 06:06 PM
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Other shock options for cheaper would be some Koni 2812's, they're DA, but not remote reservoir. Or you can get ground Control Advance Design coilovers, again they're DA, but not remote.

There's currently a thread in the FD section and one in the race section about FD's and rear brakes, both by Howard Coleman. He is getting some custom rear big brakes by Racing Brake and they might offer a kit, so you might want to read those threads and maybe call them up and express your interest.
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Old 12-19-06, 06:24 PM
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Fritz Flynn had a lot of track time on a set of JRZs. I took a few rides in the car (the legendary Killer Bee) and it felt amazing, but I couldn't comment on reliability, etc. I know he put a lot of track miles on the car, and I don't believe he ever had to rebuild them.

-Stew
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Old 12-19-06, 06:29 PM
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Once you are in the penske ohlins market reliability really shouldn't be one of your concerns and if it is you really should reconsider your ability to make good use of the benefits of a fully adj. shock...I'm not trying to be a ***** I just would hate for you to spend a ton of money in the wrong direction. If you really want go this route I would highly reccomend you attend a shock course both penske and ohlins offer these a few time a year. If you simply purchase said shocks and install and tweek the ***** every once in a while you will never reack the full benefits

As far as reasons to purchase one over the other, they both have good and bad points but each one can be valved to feel nearly identical you just go about it in a different way. I would say the deciding factor should be the knowledge base you will have to draw from...I.E. If it were me I would go with penskes because I have far more valving knowledge with they're shocks than i do with ohlins...but if I was not going to be the one doing the tunning and there will be a ohlins guy at the tracks I'm going to I would go with them.

I will say that a out of the box the TT line ohlins have a greater range of external adjustment when compared to the penske's 8100/8700 line however both manufactures offer a full line of swappable components (needles/hs stacks blow off options etc) in order to match just about any need you could have. the other major differeance has been the valving methods...ohlins uses ring shims to create preload on the stack vs penske who uses open dish's or dagree'd dish pistons however recentley penske has also moved to the use of ring shims so this is no longer really a factor.

Reliability is more dependent on installation, cleanliness of the internalls/fluid, and the Driver (ABUSE) than the shock itself. I have never seen either a penske or an ohlins fail do to a munufacturing problem.

Last edited by sereneseven; 12-19-06 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 12-21-06, 06:17 PM
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PM me in Jan '07. I'm getting info on the new line of Penske double adj coilovers and pricing. Supposed to be around $3K. They were just released at the PRI show (like SEMA) 12/15 and are designed to compete against the JRZ/Ohlin etc setups.

Initial testing by Erik Messley (EMI Racing) was reported as very promising; however he couldn't provide more info at that time. It was before 12/15 and he needed to be hush hush.

PM me.

I run AP 13" front brakes/Ferodo DS3000 pads and '99 RZ rears with a 929 1" bore MC.... they should be plenty on a sub 3,000lb car. It isn't the end all most bad *** braking setup; however it is nice with no fade.

Howard Coleman is designed a crazy braking setup that you should look into as well.

How much power are you planning on making? What tracks will the car see and what are your best times so far there?

I'm doing 285/30/18 fronts 18x10.5" and 335/30/18 rears 18x12.5" rear with Petit rear flares.
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Old 12-23-06, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sereneseven
I don't have any 2-ways but I have a set of 3's I'll sell you for $8k...you will neeed to fab. up the bracketry. the best availiable for under $10K
$8k?? The tripple adj. go for $1225 each new...

http://www.resuspension.com/cart/pro...&cat=76&page=1
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Old 12-23-06, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 2a+RoN
$8k?? The tripple adj. go for $1225 each new...

http://www.resuspension.com/cart/pro...&cat=76&page=1
LOL!!!

I was waiting for someone to call me out on that. I actually don't plan on selling mine I was just seeing if someone would jump.

I'm glad you posted up that link I've worked with Kurt before and If anyone here is trully serious about stepping up to a real racing shock (penske/ohlins market) I would highly reccomend you talk to those guys...they supply dyno's to I'd say %75 of the racing community...it's tough to find more knowlegable people on the subject. Or go straight to the munufacturer.
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