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FC road racing and autocross alignment settings?

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FC road racing and autocross alignment settings?

Old 02-24-05, 02:31 PM
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FC road racing and autocross alignment settings?

Does anyone have any road course and autocross settings for toe/camber/caster on an FC?

thanks
Ben
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Old 02-26-05, 02:44 PM
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Settings

Ben you have probably not received much response because of the question. The setting are different for the two type of races. I will try to help.

Autox

Max negative camber both front and rear
Toe 1/16th total toe out front
1/4 total toe in rear.

This should get you started. Variables are your tires, shocks, springs and bars.

Road Racing

Camber -1 if you can get it both front and rear.
0 to 1/16th total toe in front.
0 to 1/16th total toe in rear.

This is a start. I used to autox a TII now I autox a 3rd gen.

Good luck.

Spank
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Old 02-26-05, 03:19 PM
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Also as much positive castor as possible(~7*). Camber also depends alot on what tires you are using, castor, etc. DOT R compounds will work well between 1.5-3 degrees, I'd run quite a bit more camber in the front than what Spank listed, but every car/tire/driver is different. Maybe less in the rear depending on power output, and spring rates. Lowering the car will get you the camber in the rear(sometimes too much), and camber plates with a castor adjustment will take care of the front. Again, follow the tire manufacturers recomendations, they vary quite a bit. Carl
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Old 02-28-05, 08:44 AM
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Thanks guys. I realize that autox and road racing require different setups, I was just asking for suggestions on each.

I have full adjustability all around (AWR individual camber/toe in back, camber/caster in front) and I just needed a good place to start.

Thanks
Ben
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Old 02-28-05, 11:15 AM
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Hey Ben, do you have any pics of you camber adjusters installed? I was looking at mine, and I do not see how you can adjust them without cutting a portion of that slotted steel that sits just under the adjuster. Also my Toe adjesters have 5/8" bolts, so i guess I'll need to drill those holes out as well. Anyway, pics would be great, as AWR does not show any, nor do they seem to have any install directions, hints etc. i know these are pretty straight forward, but I have an older set, I think they downsized the bolts in later versions. Thanks, Carl
My Email is [email protected] if you get a chance.
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Old 02-28-05, 11:43 AM
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I don't have any pics handy but I had to do a bit of cutting and machining to get these items to fit.

camber adjusters- I cut the metal, there just isn't another way to mount them. The metal that the camber adjusters mount into don't need to be joined since they are braced when they are bolted to the camber adjuster.

toe adjusters- you need to drill out the stock tapered holes to 5/8". This is kind of tricky since you need to somehow brace the rear subframe on a drill press/mill. My friend works at a machine shop with a Bridgeport and we did it there. It took some creativity, but it came out really well.

If only I could install a rear wheel bearing without a wobbly hub afterwards...

Ben
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Old 02-28-05, 01:15 PM
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So, you cannot do the toe adjusters on the car?
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Old 02-28-05, 02:12 PM
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No, not accurately. I guess you could put a 5/8" bit into a big hand drill, but the chances of success are really low. You'll probably end up hogging out the holes. The whole setup relies on having pretty accurate 5/8" for the rod end/bushing setup.

Ben
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Old 02-28-05, 03:40 PM
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Arghhh!
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Old 02-28-05, 04:28 PM
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I guess I will use a digital level to true my sub frame to the garage floor. I will then make an upside down drill press. Thanks for the heads up. As an aside did you find that the stock adjuster does not have enough range once the car is lowered, and the camber corrected? Carl
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Old 02-28-05, 07:09 PM
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It isn't that bad to drop the rear subframe and it'll allow you to install delrin bushings in the subframe, trailing arms, and diff mounts if you don't have them already there. It'll be a lot easier to do if you have the subframe off the car and it'll lessen the chance of something going wrong.

My car has yet to roll since I put it on jacks in June so I have no idea what the limits of the stock setup are.

Ben
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Old 02-28-05, 11:24 PM
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I have already done all the subframe bushings, I am trying to wrap things up by april 1. I may skip the toe adjusters for now. My car hasn't seen the track since march. There are so many changes to my car, I cannot think of anything that is the same. It will either have so much Downforce I cannot accelerate, or it will fly, literally
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Old 03-01-05, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
It will either have so much Downforce I cannot accelerate, or it will fly, literally
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Old 03-01-05, 09:05 AM
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Speaking of wings- Carl did you ever use the smaller APR GTC wing? The big one is out of my budget range right now (wheels, cage, headers, tires, tuning adds up really quickly).

Anyone else have suggestions for a functional FC wing?

Thanks
Ben
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Old 03-01-05, 01:29 PM
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My specs

Front
-3* camber
+5* caster
1/16 Toe out

Rear
-1 (trying to get to -2) camber
1/16 Toe in
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Old 03-01-05, 02:52 PM
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Thanks very much. Have you tried any different setups? How does this feel in relation to anything else that you've tried?

Thanks
Ben
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Old 03-01-05, 06:03 PM
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The best thing you can do is invest in a tire pyrometer(not the infrared type) and jump on those tires and poke them as quick as you after a run. Let the tires tell you what your car likes. Too much camber will hurt your braking. Don't be fooled by a quick pointing car that actually may not have good steady state cornering. If you can't afford one find some like minded friends and split the cost. Probably the best set-up tool you can invest in.
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Old 03-02-05, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Silkworm
My specs

Front
-3* camber
+5* caster
1/16 Toe out

Rear
-1 (trying to get to -2) camber
1/16 Toe in
Paul, why can't you get ~-3 in the rear? An otherwise stock suspensioned FC will get -3 just by lowering ~2" from stock. Usually the camber adjusters are used to dial out camber. You might want to see if you can get 7 degrees pos. castor. Otherwise your settings look good for DOT R tires. Slicks want far less camber(and spring rates ~20% higher than for DOTs), ~1.5 all around I believe as a starting point( for the slicks). Horse power makes a big difference, the more you have, the more camber gain(neg.) you'll get on acceleration. My tire temps with 235-40-17 RA1s are +/- 10 degrees across each tread. I start with ~5lbs less cold on the left side at infineon. Carl
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Old 03-02-05, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by RX-Ben
Speaking of wings- Carl did you ever use the smaller APR GTC wing? The big one is out of my budget range right now (wheels, cage, headers, tires, tuning adds up really quickly).

Anyone else have suggestions for a functional FC wing?

Thanks
Ben
I still have the small wing, I will be sending it to APR in exchange for the large. This is based on what I saw at JGTC. The GT300 cars ran wings far larger than anything commercially available, and I have a power to weight ratio at least as good as those cars. I think the small GT wing is the way to go, they are ~450.00 on the Subaru tuner sites. I will have to reinforce the rear sheet metal to carry the load, the cast aluminum mounts from APR broke at less than 100mph (they were modified, so no reflection on APR)preventing any testing. Carl
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Old 03-02-05, 08:59 AM
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jgrewe- thanks for reminding me about the pyrometer, I'll definitely pick one up.

Any idea how much the camber settings would be different for street tires (like Goodyear Supercars)? I'm restricted to run street tires in the One Lap race- can anyone guess if high spring rates (like 600/450lb) not work so well with them? Maybe something like 500/375 instead?

Carl- on the wing- how high did you mount it? My friend works at a machine shop and I may just have him cut a couple pedestals.

Thanks
Ben
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Old 03-02-05, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Carl Byck
Usually the camber adjusters are used to dial out camber. You might want to see if you can get 7 degrees pos. castor.
Do you have to slot the holes to get this much? I have the K2RD setup, which includes some camber plates that set the strut mount back a bit, but I don't think it's 7 deg.
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Old 03-02-05, 04:15 PM
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To get 7 degrees you would essentially rotate your camber plates so that as you gained negative camber, you simultaneously gained positive castor. Instead of the slot being perpindicular to the car, you would mount it so the slot is in the ~1-2 o'clock position with 12 o'clock being its present orientation. Tricky ehh Carl
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Old 03-03-05, 01:57 PM
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Carl,

Did you notice a lot of gains from running so much castor. Running lots of castor isn't always the best thing. I wonder how much castor my ground control plates can give.
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Old 03-03-05, 06:01 PM
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On the spring rates, If I remember correctly the "street" tires can have a spring rate around 1600 lb. So I don't think the rates effect the tire. The big difference street to slick would be the amount of camber gain each tire can put up with from the supension. The softer springs will allow more travel and the street tires may be able to cope with the geometry change better. If we raced on pool table smooth courses this stuff would be easy. A little compliance helps through the bumpy turns as I'm sure many know.

John
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Old 03-03-05, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jgrewe
On the spring rates, If I remember correctly the "street" tires can have a spring rate around 1600 lb. So I don't think the rates effect the tire. The big difference street to slick would be the amount of camber gain each tire can put up with from the supension. The softer springs will allow more travel and the street tires may be able to cope with the geometry change better. If we raced on pool table smooth courses this stuff would be easy. A little compliance helps through the bumpy turns as I'm sure many know.

John
Read what you wrote... Not only untrue, but flies in the face of common sense. Regards. Rather than argue it here, tell us why there is more than one spring rate for cars in general LOL...
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