WVRx7

I would concur with Fritz on laptimes at VIR.

Fritz is more than capable of what he claims and you would be hard pressed to pass him with any other street car unless he wants you to.

I was at an Audi event with Fritz in April and in my mildly modified car I was doing sub 2:20 laps, with a best of 2:15. Fritz is a more seasoned driver and (usually) has a far healthier car than I drive.

The danger with threads and comparisons like this is the fact that the majority of us are on the track during educational sessions and we encounter traffic. On top of that, it is sometimes a bad decision to try for ultimate lap times (driving 10/10ths) while at an HPDE. It's just not what the events are for.

Luckily, the instructor run groups are normally populated by fast, courteous, drivers, but it is still difficult to compare laptimes unless under race conditions (pass anywhere on track) with like minded, racers, on track.

For me, I don't think I have ever run 10/10ths on a lap while in my Rx7. It's just not worth it to me to crumple up my beautiful car just so I can have bragging rights. I would rather have lots of seat time at 8/10ths, 9/10ths and enjoy the experience within the bounds of what the HPDE event was organized for.

Anyone going to VIR this week. I'll be there Thursday-Sunday.

M's

i hear all this talk of stiff chassis, yet i believe maybe 1 or 2 of you actually know the roll of chassis torsional stiffness in vehicle dynamics. your chassis stiffness is a tuning element for roll moment distrabution. Chassis stiffness is not something that can be isolated and said to make car x better than car Y. weight can be isolated but the torsional stiffness of a chassis is dependant on the needs imposed by the suspension design and the amount of post design tuning required/needed. Please don't toss around chassis stiffness as a measure of a cars performance. It is not!


furthermore it discredits you. It is my opinion that the rx7 will turn faster lap times. The E46 is not a good comparison at all since the rx7 is now 13 years old and does not weigh as much as the near titanic E46 street car. In the end the E36 M3 and FD rx7 are both fantastic cars, its simply a matter of finding the driver that can maximize the potential of both cars so that people could meaninglessly compare the two. You will not find club racers capable of maximizing the potential of the cars, this is why they are club racers.

John Magnuson

Really it comes down to power and weight for the most part (given equal drivers). I do a lot of Porsch Club of America events with my FD (fun guys to run with). Well set up 944 turbos will be very close to my times (some a little faster some a little slower) which is not surprising given the weight and power similarities. I can usually beat stock non turbo 911s of any year pretty handily. A well driven GT3 will smoke me.

One thing is for sure... after driving with the Porsche Club I always feel MUCH better about the cost of running an FD.

eastcoastbumps

iTrader: (1)

It looks like I'll have one more M3 to battle with at the COM events. My brother is going to look at an E36 M3 tomorrow.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

John,

my experience with the PCA club and Porsche cars mirrors yours exactly, and I'm now an instructor at PCA.

I can just now do 1:25 consistently at Roebling Road Raceway, but these track-prepped 996 & 997 Porsches (stripped interiors) just leave me in the dust around the corners. A 996 Porsche Cup Car came up on me so fast . . .

Also, those track-prepped BMW M3's (E36 & E46) with stripped interiors are running about 2-4 seconds faster.

How much faster could a track-prepped FD really be . . .

BTW: I did drive a student's 996 turbo, and that car was SO EASY to drive fast. I felt very confident in that car . . .

:-) neil

325 RWHP; Advance Design Coilovers; Tripoint Front Swaybar

eastcoastbumps

iTrader: (1)

I was at Watkins Glen last week. That track would be a lot of fun in a FD. I was struggling with my 2.5RS. I couldn't properly shake the car out before the event and I spent more time fixing it than I did driving it.

BTW, my brother ran a 1:55 at Tremblant in my FD. Stock (most likely original 80k mile) suspension, LS1, and 255 & 275 RA1's. I was a good bit off his time. It was my first time back on the track since a bad accident at Mosport.

gracer7-rx7

iTrader: (16)

Last time I was at the Glen was in my 88 GTU about 8 years ago. I met a guy who had just started tracking a white FD. We kept pushing each other all day until I spun.

I ran into him last year. He is still tracking that same white FD. Now it has a stripped interior and a roll bar. Nice guy. Keep your eyes open for him.

The Glen is a blast in an FD

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Jack/No Cones/EprodRX7/Eastcoastbumps
I'm planning (as always) to be at The Glen for the Trackmasters event the first week in September. Let's get a good RX7 group there this year... I've been the only FD for about 3-4 years running. I didn't get the chance to time many laps last year, but I'll have the hotlap system this year.

EProdRx7

Sounds good to me but for the first time in the last fifteen years I don't own a Rx7! I'll still be there though.

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

I did my first time trial event at Roebling Road (June 16-17) with the Tarheel Sports Club (wonderful group, very professional) and finally cut a 1:22:108, beating LOTS of dedicated track cars (roll cage, stripped interiors, etc.), including a couple of track-only M3's, some with wings.

This is with a FD Touring, with only the spare tire removed, and about 325 RWHP on Kumho 710's, SMIC, stock brakes (Hawk HT-10 pads) and a Race Shop roll-bar. The total car weight is 3000-lbs with me in and a full-tank of gas.

The new Fluidyne did wonderful and kept my water temp at 210-F all day, running about 14-lbs of boost (4x850cc w/PFC).

She feels very light in some of the very high-speed sweepers, I wonder if its time for a Spec'99 wing . . .

:-) neil

M104-AMG

iTrader: (8)

Here you go, passing two track-prepped BMW M3's at a time trial:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXpRYLzsMxE

Enjoy,
:-) neil

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

My peripheral ported 1st gen RX-7 ran 2:08 at VIR in 2005; this is an old 1979 tub chassis vintage race car; no turbos, no nitrous, no IRS. I believe the lighter weight of the 1st gen chassis to be an advantage compared to the more complex cars, because complexity usually adds weight.

I run 1:35 at Road Atlanta, and 2:04 at Daytona.

CasperIV

I would have to agree. The German companies do a great job integrating and perfecting their cars during race seasons and they do an even better job of actually applying it to their cars on the street. Also, if your going to compare stock for stock, people have to understand what vehicles people are comparing. If a standard luxury M3 hits the track with an FD3 R1, I would favor the R1. If the same R1 hit the track with an M3 Lightweight, I would favor the M3.

I really like both Japanese and European cars (I have owned several BMWs and have one right now). The E36 M3 is a very track worthy car, with a fantastic weight distribution, suspension geometry, and a great power band for road racing. Personally, I am planning to build an FD3 as my track day car because I have always liked the styling and handling characteristics better for my driving style. My wife actually wants me to build her either an E36 M3 or an old school M3 and swap a new series motor into it. Either way, it will probably be a very potent competitor for any FD I build and I will probably end up driving both on track days.

speedturn

iTrader: (1)

The Porsche type 911 has been developed and raced since it first appeared in 1964 - that's 43 years of evolution into the razor sharp right out of the box GT3 model. 43 years of racing experience is way more than the 20-30 years guesstimated by ptrhahn. At the HSR races in run, usually about half of the cars that show up for the weekend are some type of Porsche. In my class for 1984 or older iMSA GTU cars (must be tub chassis,) usually about 75% of the cars are Porsches. That speaks volumes for Porsches race track ability.

darkslide750

I have a 95 m3 and a fd a 93 RX7. I have ran both in NASA TT Events. I am usually about 5-6 seconds slower in the m3. Both cars have coilovers and Toyo Ra-1's. The M3 is underpowered by about 120hp, otherwise, I think I could get close to the FD lap times. The M3 is a great handling car, I love driving it.

cozmo kraemer

darkslide750...

Strange how similar we are. I had a 95 M3 before I got this FD. I have had a E30 325i since I got the FD. The M3 was the best all around car I have had. Great handling, adequate power (not over powering by any means), and so very responsive all the way up to the limit. IT was a lot of fun on the track with R-comps and a full suspension setup. Nothing but grins lap after lap, and I never had any real reliability issues.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

Gentlemen,
Trackmasters WGI is next week. Anyone still going?