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Do i need a seat Brace for my RZ seats?

Old 03-26-05, 09:18 AM
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Question Do i need a seat Brace for my RZ seats?

I was looking into getting started with some local nasa events and have been reading their forums and whatnot. But i could not find anything about a stock seat thats carbon kevlar needing to be used with a seat brace. I am using a kirk racing 4pt cage and oem 2000 rz seats and i was going to assume since my seats are oem that i wouldnt need it. So at this point i figure i better ask. also it seems that i cant find out whether the brace has the be attached to the seat or not. some people on that forum say they do and some dont. anyways rookie looking for some veteran help please.

john
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Old 03-26-05, 03:32 PM
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seat brace

You should try to contact the local NASA tech rep for the real answer, but a rule of thumb is a seat with an FIA approval will not be required a seat brace and one without will need it.
Good luck
Steve
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Old 03-26-05, 08:01 PM
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The RZ factory seats are composite? As in a shell? Does it have a sub-belt hole?

Yeah, for IT classes, SCCA is the same - if it has the FIA cert, it doesn't require a back brace. Otherwise one is required. Here is a passage from the 2004 GCR (still applies this year):

18.2.10. In order to provide a secure seat back support a section of tubing equal to the roll bar shall be installed horizontally from the main hoop upright to the diagonal brace. This tube shall be no higher than shoulder height. The driverís seat shall be firmly mounted to the structure of the car. In cars where the seat is upright, the back of the seat shall be firmly attached to the main roll hoop, or itís cross bracing.

Seats homologated to and mounted in accordance with FIA standard 8855-1999 or higher need not have the seat back attached to the roll structure. The homologation labels must be visible. Seat supports shall be of the type listed on FIA technical list No.12 (lateral, bottom, etc).
I've heard/read several arguments over whether the back brace is still beneficial with an FIA seat. Some people argue that the FIA-approved seats are safer without the brace, but I still run one. Seems to me like a rear impact without a brace is just going to allow your body to accelerate more rearwards before hitting the cage. That is if the seat breaks, but I personally assume that it will to err on the safe side - kevlar has some flexibility, but carbon is very brittle. Just my $.02...

If you decide to use a brace, make sure to get one with the most surface area on the back plate. The I/O Port braces have a fairly large plate, but I would even consider welding a larger plate in place of the piece they use, depending on how fast you will be going.
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Old 03-26-05, 08:58 PM
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If the seat is hinged (which most stock seats are) then it won't be legal anyway.
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Old 03-26-05, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by apexkw
I was looking into getting started with some local nasa events and have been reading their forums and whatnot. But i could not find anything about a stock seat thats carbon kevlar needing to be used with a seat brace. I am using a kirk racing 4pt cage and oem 2000 rz seats and i was going to assume since my seats are oem that i wouldnt need it. So at this point i figure i better ask. also it seems that i cant find out whether the brace has the be attached to the seat or not. some people on that forum say they do and some dont. anyways rookie looking for some veteran help please.

john
For their hight performance driving event. No you dont neet it... but for Clubing racing... i think most likely you need it. because even thought your seat is make by Recaro and is kelvar but it is not FIA prove. so...
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Old 03-26-05, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by C. Ludwig
If the seat is hinged (which most stock seats are) then it won't be legal anyway.

Should of qualified that like DIYMAN. For wheel to wheel racing it wouldn't be legal. For HPDE the barn door is open on seat AFAIK.
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Old 03-26-05, 11:44 PM
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Oh, it's a hinged composite seat? That definitely wouldn't be legal for club racing.

Last edited by DigDug; 03-26-05 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 03-27-05, 01:07 AM
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If memory serves me, RZ seats are non-reclining semi-bucket (very shallow) seats.

Hope you didn't spend too much on them seeing as how you'd get more performance out of any aftermarket full bucket...
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Old 03-28-05, 09:53 AM
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Wink

yea the rz seat is like a recaro spg but smaller so it fits in the fd better. its just a shell and no it doesnt have a sub belt hole and its a non reclining bucket seat. here is a picture of the seats i have. also its like a stock evo or nsx recaro seat from japan. i am planning on doing some hpde events with nasa. so i am not racing for fame or someone elses fortune. just for fun and to learn a little more about myself and the car. probably going to sebring, moroso, and maybe daytona.

digdug,

yea i have read that before about the seats and the backbrace with the roll bar. i thought maybe somone was using a set of these seats for racing in the us. as i have seen guys in japan use them but i dont know the rules for them so i asked here. so really all i have to do is find out if the seat is fia approved. if it is then i dont "need" it. but if it isnt then i do. well it seems simple enough.

kaiesr,

i asked the local nasa president...not the tech rep though and she didnt know about it since she has never heard or seen a rz recaro before. she told me to email the tech guy...kevin i believe and ask him or just go to the next event and have them look at it.

diyman25,

it seems to me that by reading your post that you think the seat is not fia approved. can you explain a little bit more please. thanks

Valkyrie,

they didnt cost me that much. but anyways i got the seats as one of my first mods way back when i first got the car. and yes i realize that a full bucket would be better but i still like to drive my car on the street. people should think of my car not as a dedicated track car but more along the lines of a semi daily driven and a weekend warrior. since your location points that you are in japan perhaps you can ask mazda if its fia approved for me lol.

thanks,

john
Attached Thumbnails Do i need a seat Brace for my RZ seats?-rz_interior.jpg  
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Old 03-28-05, 09:58 AM
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If it's FIA approved it'll have a tag on it saying so. Look at the bottom of the seat in this pic for the tag.

http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/big...asp?RecId=1066
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Old 03-28-05, 01:02 PM
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You can pass tech for HPDE's with completely stock system - seats, seatbelts, etc.

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf

For example, you don't have to have a roll bar (except for convertibles). However, if you have a roll bar, 11.4.7 says "All cars with roll bars are required to have adequate roll bar padding per CCR section #15.6.4. In cases where the driverís head may come in contact with the roll bar should the seatback fail, a seatback brace is required in conformance with section #15.6.22."

You can have stock seat belts. However, if you have harnesses, "Any harness or any restraint system, other than factory stock, shall conform to CCR section #15.5, in all respects except for the expiration regulations. Harnesses that are expired for racing may be used providing that they are in at least very good condition. The use of a lap belt without any shoulder restraint is not permitted. Passenger seatbelts must meet the same requirements as the driver seatbelts if being used by a passenger." (11.4.8)

Seat requirements: "All seats must be securely fastened to the structure of the car such that they are strong enough to withstand a major impact. If replaced, the replacement seat should be installed according to the manufacturerís instructions. If stock seats are to be used with a roll bar/cage, care should be taken to prevent the seat from submarining under the rollbar. Care should also be taken to prevent the occupant from hitting his/her head on the roll bar/cage. Passenger seats must meet the same requirements as the driver seat, if used by passengers." (11.4.12)

My reading of the NASA tech guide is that whether or not you need a seat-back brace depends not on whether the seat is original or aftermarket, FIA rated or not, but whether your head would hit the rollbar if it failed.
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Old 03-30-05, 08:22 PM
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diyman25,

it seems to me that by reading your post that you think the seat is not fia approved. can you explain a little bit more please. thanks



john

YES your seat is not FIA approve. so do the NSX Type S-ZERO, or the Porsche GT3 (mushroom Bucket seat) The reason why. Even thought RZ seat might be similar to Bucket seat. but inorder to get it FIA approve. MAZDA/RECARO need to spend a lot of money to get it test it, or get it approve by FIA, But along as your RZ seat can hold you down pretty good when your driving. this will be fine...

J
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Old 04-06-05, 08:04 AM
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Why is the FIA approval so important? I know bride seats do not come with a FIA approval and yet they are used in JGTC races, if they're good enough for those guys they're good enough for me.
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Old 04-09-05, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrub
Why is the FIA approval so important? I know bride seats do not come with a FIA approval and yet they are used in JGTC races, if they're good enough for those guys they're good enough for me.

The only FIA aprove Bride seat is . there Carbon Fiber / kevler one. How I know that. because , my friend bought one and install in his SCCA T1 car.. Plus there are no way the international Race in japan will not use FIA or SFI approve stuff..
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Old 04-09-05, 03:12 PM
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Interesting... John, looks like we got real expensive but non-functional seats
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