Brake Setup on my Race Car
01-23-08, 12:18 PM
#26
BTW, I use temp paint on the calipers, rotors, and pad backing plates, to review temps and make sure I am not below and not over the pads operating temp.
02-05-08, 02:49 PM
#32
Damian, I meant to ask if you knew what the bore size and stroke of your AP Master Cylinders were?
And also if you could shed some more light on the relationship between Master Cylinder bore sizes and the piston sizes of the calipers that would be great. You said this earlier, "you must match the entire system to have it work corretly, the MC sizes must match the caliper pistons sizes and the front/rear caliper piston sizes must be balanced right, et, et."
Greatly appreciated!
Charlie
And also if you could shed some more light on the relationship between Master Cylinder bore sizes and the piston sizes of the calipers that would be great. You said this earlier, "you must match the entire system to have it work corretly, the MC sizes must match the caliper pistons sizes and the front/rear caliper piston sizes must be balanced right, et, et."
Greatly appreciated!
Charlie
02-05-08, 03:08 PM
#33
>>Damian, I meant to ask if you knew what the bore size and stroke of your AP Master Cylinders were?
Already did, post #13 in this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=13
>>And also if you could shed some more light on the relationship between Master Cylinder bore sizes and the piston sizes of the calipers that would be great. You said this earlier, "you must match the entire system to have it work corretly, the MC sizes must match the caliper pistons sizes and the front/rear caliper piston sizes must be balanced right, et, et."
wow, well this is a very loaded questions and would take a while to explain it all. I may have to save the details of this for another post :-)
If you check the other thread that has the spread sheet GooRoo made for use to help setup brake systems, you will see all the factors involved. Caliper piston sizes, rotor anulus area, pad friction coiffecient, car CG point, tires, master cylinder sizes, pedal mechanical advantage, power assist if you have it, et, et, et. Lots of variables,...
... but to simplify it, tires are what slow you down, and you are limited to the grip the tires can provide, from there, you want to maximize all 4 of your tires grip under braking, so you use the math to balance the components of the braking system to give you maximum front tire AND rear tire braking bias based on the cars weight transfer and other physics...that math will tell you how to setp the piston sizes and MC sizes, et.
Again, that is very oversimplified as we have not added in track conditions or heat management, et, et.
The biggest thing I learned was to not look at the brakes as individual parts, but as a system, and realize that its the system being in balance that will get the best performance.... as with anything on a performance car.
Already did, post #13 in this thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...2&postcount=13
>>And also if you could shed some more light on the relationship between Master Cylinder bore sizes and the piston sizes of the calipers that would be great. You said this earlier, "you must match the entire system to have it work corretly, the MC sizes must match the caliper pistons sizes and the front/rear caliper piston sizes must be balanced right, et, et."
wow, well this is a very loaded questions and would take a while to explain it all. I may have to save the details of this for another post :-)
If you check the other thread that has the spread sheet GooRoo made for use to help setup brake systems, you will see all the factors involved. Caliper piston sizes, rotor anulus area, pad friction coiffecient, car CG point, tires, master cylinder sizes, pedal mechanical advantage, power assist if you have it, et, et, et. Lots of variables,...
... but to simplify it, tires are what slow you down, and you are limited to the grip the tires can provide, from there, you want to maximize all 4 of your tires grip under braking, so you use the math to balance the components of the braking system to give you maximum front tire AND rear tire braking bias based on the cars weight transfer and other physics...that math will tell you how to setp the piston sizes and MC sizes, et.
Again, that is very oversimplified as we have not added in track conditions or heat management, et, et.
The biggest thing I learned was to not look at the brakes as individual parts, but as a system, and realize that its the system being in balance that will get the best performance.... as with anything on a performance car.
02-05-08, 05:55 PM
#34
damian i know i'm not alone when i say how much i really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us! you really are one of the best assets on this forum, and if i ever meet you in person i intend to buy you a sandwich. 
[/obsequious]
[/obsequious]
02-05-08, 10:49 PM
#35
damian i know i'm not alone when i say how much i really appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience with the rest of us! you really are one of the best assets on this forum, and if i ever meet you in person i intend to buy you a sandwich. [/obsequious]
[/obsequious]I have a lot of great mentors helping me do a lot of this, they are the ones that deserve the credit.
03-20-08, 12:58 PM
#38
One thing I forgot to add to the list and is very important:
Brake Knockback Springs!!!
After experiencing some very bad knockback during a few races, I installed the knockback springs and they solved the brake pedal problems from the knockback.
Brake Knockback Springs!!!
After experiencing some very bad knockback during a few races, I installed the knockback springs and they solved the brake pedal problems from the knockback.
03-21-08, 05:34 PM
#40
The RacingBrake kit didn't exist at the time that we were troubleshooting his fronts. (Summer/Fall of '06) We had a 2-3 week window to fix the brakes (they were pretty bad) before the '06 NASA nationals. Stoptech tried to fit/send a custom kit to him in that timeframe. They didn't have the caliper mounting hardware in stock, so we tried to get something that would fit with the porsche 911TT (Big Red) caliper mounting hardware, and it was pretty close, but didn't work. So he just fit the Stoptech kit after the event when they could get the proper caliper mounting hardware.
08-20-10, 03:43 PM
#43
Here are a coulple of pictures of my tilton dual MC brake set up:
I'd prefer to do it the way Bill is doing it and keep ABS. Unfortunately, the cage that was in my car when I purchased it did not afford me that luxury. I guess I could look into placing it somewhere inside the compartment and building another bulkhead for it.
I'd prefer to do it the way Bill is doing it and keep ABS. Unfortunately, the cage that was in my car when I purchased it did not afford me that luxury. I guess I could look into placing it somewhere inside the compartment and building another bulkhead for it.
04-12-12, 12:05 PM
#47
This seems like a good thread in which to share this cool brake part from Iron Canyon Motorsports. It is a Brake Pressure sensor allowing you to get data on brake pressure and feed it into your data acquisition system. Originally designed for a Miata's brake system but should work on the RX7's brake system as well.
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com...r-adapter.html
copy/paste:
An Iron Canyon Motorsports exclusive. We needed these for our cars and had a few extra manufactured in the process. Nobody but ICM has a 303 Stainless Steel banjo bolt with a 1/8 NPT fitting for a M10x1 threaded master cylinder. We know. We looked. The ICM Brake Pressure Sender Adapter replaces an existing banjo bolt on the master cylinder and allows the use of a 1/8 NPT pressure sensor for measuring braking force. No cutting of critical brakelines or introduction of additional failure points in a critical system. Some are even drilling and tapping the master cylinder to install a sensor. As our class doesn't allow use of a proportioning valve you really only need to monitor a single point to pick up the brake pressure. Clean and easy.
http://www.ironcanyonmotorsports.com...r-adapter.html
copy/paste:
An Iron Canyon Motorsports exclusive. We needed these for our cars and had a few extra manufactured in the process. Nobody but ICM has a 303 Stainless Steel banjo bolt with a 1/8 NPT fitting for a M10x1 threaded master cylinder. We know. We looked
. The ICM Brake Pressure Sender Adapter replaces an existing banjo bolt on the master cylinder and allows the use of a 1/8 NPT pressure sensor for measuring braking force. No cutting of critical brakelines or introduction of additional failure points in a critical system. Some are even drilling and tapping the master cylinder to install a sensor. As our class doesn't allow use of a proportioning valve you really only need to monitor a single point to pick up the brake pressure. Clean and easy.
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