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antifreeze patch + Track = bad

Old 09-20-06, 10:13 PM
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antifreeze patch + Track = bad

Guy hits an antifreeze patch going into turn 4 at summit!!! Comes damn close to hitting another car...as video shows

http://www.elementtuning.com/Videos...e%20Attacks.wmv
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Old 09-20-06, 11:55 PM
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needless to say, id be pissed
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Old 09-21-06, 12:42 AM
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Very dangerous situation.

Last edited by crispeed; 09-21-06 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 09-21-06, 04:27 AM
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Why was antifreeze being allowed to be used on these cars on the track?
Most of the "big" tracks on the west coast BAN use of coolant in a race car...


-Ted
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Old 09-21-06, 10:21 AM
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how did you guys even see the vid...the link is obviously incomplete
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Old 09-21-06, 10:29 AM
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How the hell do you ban the use of coolant (I assume you mean antifreeze)? There isn't a car around running 100% water unless it's a trailered racecar.




Originally Posted by RETed
Why was antifreeze being allowed to be used on these cars on the track?
Most of the "big" tracks on the west coast BAN use of coolant in a race car...


-Ted
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Old 09-21-06, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ptrhahn
How the hell do you ban the use of coolant (I assume you mean antifreeze)? There isn't a car around running 100% water unless it's a trailered racecar.
You say in the rules no antifreeze allowed. Every dragstrip and roadcourse I've ever been to has that as a standing rule. Not that everyone adheres to it but it's a rule none the less. If you want to play/compete you are supposed to drain the antifreeze and run straight water. Winter time comes around you top it back up with antifreeze. By taking a small amount of your time each season you prevent situations like this video. You also can prevent pissing off a good number of people at a dragstrip by not causing a long delay to clean up your mess.
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Old 09-21-06, 12:27 PM
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I've never seen it. Anyplace. And it's not realistic for anyplace admitting street cars.


Originally Posted by C. Ludwig
You say in the rules no antifreeze allowed. Every dragstrip and roadcourse I've ever been to has that as a standing rule. Not that everyone adheres to it but it's a rule none the less. If you want to play/compete you are supposed to drain the antifreeze and run straight water. Winter time comes around you top it back up with antifreeze. By taking a small amount of your time each season you prevent situations like this video. You also can prevent pissing off a good number of people at a dragstrip by not causing a long delay to clean up your mess.
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Old 09-21-06, 03:55 PM
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My road race sanctioning bodies very strictly enforce the no anti-freeze rules at the east coast tracks I race it. The way they accomplish that is that the tech inspector for the event either asks the entrant, or he opens a cap and looks himself.

Most HPDE are very lax on safety compared to real road racing.
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Old 09-21-06, 04:18 PM
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Old 09-21-06, 05:33 PM
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I had a "fun" corner a few years back when running in a tight pack. There were four of us in a line, the front guy had just changed his oil and didn't tighten his drain plug in enough. He goes bailing off track, rear end first. The fellow immediately behind him goes off sideways. I'm thinking "what the hell", the guy in front of me goes off sideways as well. I tried to get off the line, but I still caught the oil with my outside tire and went off. We all managed to miss each other and the session went full course yellow while the kitty litter got dumped on the spill. Needless to say, the first fellow off got a tow back to the pits to put oil back in his car, wisely staying off track as he was towed. Sometimes you just don't have time to do anything other than spin.

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Old 09-22-06, 11:51 AM
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Old 09-22-06, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ptrhahn
I've never seen it. Anyplace. And it's not realistic for anyplace admitting street cars.
I have never ever run antifreeze in any of my cars. I allways run 100% water. antifreeze will make the car run hotter. that's why it's not called coolant it's called antifreeze. that's all it does. that and prevents corosion, but if you change your free water regularly it'll be fine. All NHRA sanctioned track do not allow any kind of antifreeze. waterwetter included. if it ain't water you ain't raceing.

Last edited by Hyper4mance2k; 09-22-06 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-23-06, 10:47 AM
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This is a rule at every track I have ever been to, but it is also one of the least enforced rules in the book as well. The only time it comes up is if someone soaks the track and another car crashes badly. Do your fellow racers and hot lapping friends a favor and remove the antifreeze and run water while on the track. your car will not fall apart from having water in the system for a couple days and it is not that difficult to drain and refill if it is a street car.
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Old 09-23-06, 11:01 AM
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Well no kidding. "Street cars" isn't racing, it's HPDE or open lapping. Racing is one thing, and entirely different.

You can't run pure watter in a car that has to drive home in December in many areas of this county, period... and changing coolant twice a year minimum, and going through the "burping" process for one of these cars, just isn't realistic. I'd file it in the "in a perfect world" scenarios file of stuff thst just aint gonna happen in real life.



Originally Posted by Hyper4mance2k
I have never ever run antifreeze in any of my cars. I allways run 100% water. antifreeze will make the car run hotter. that's why it's not called coolant it's called antifreeze. that's all it does. that and prevents corosion, but if you change your free water regularly it'll be fine. All NHRA sanctioned track do not allow any kind of antifreeze. waterwetter included. if it ain't water you ain't raceing.
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Old 09-23-06, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ptrhahn
Well no kidding. "Street cars" isn't racing, it's HPDE or open lapping. Racing is one thing, and entirely different.

You can't run pure watter in a car that has to drive home in December in many areas of this county, period... and changing coolant twice a year minimum, and going through the "burping" process for one of these cars, just isn't realistic. I'd file it in the "in a perfect world" scenarios file of stuff thst just aint gonna happen in real life.

So you'd just assume run anti-freeze and hope you don't grease the track for someone else or yourself? Or assume someone isn't going to grease the track for you? If you're doing a lapping event with any sanctioning body they have a standing no anti-freeze rule. What's more every track is going to have it as a standing rule. On top of everything else it's common sense. And you're not going to do it because it's inconvenient? That's a **** poor attitude IMO. Doesn't matter if it's the Runoffs or a lapping day. ATCO Nationals or a local Wednesday test and tune. It's a safety matter and there are rules for a reason.
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Old 09-23-06, 02:52 PM
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ptrhahn,

I will agree driving your a street car on a racetrack is not racing, but you are on the racetrack that people will eventually be racing on. So certain considerations should be made. It is to bad that the local groups in yur area don't enforce the rules of the track. I hope that you never experience a lack of control on the track caused by another participants lack of common sense. I also hope you are not the cause of someone elses accident or injury.
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Old 09-23-06, 07:17 PM
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Look guys, don't shoot the messenger here.

The reality is, there are thousands of street cars running on racetracks all over this country every year in HPDE/Lapping events, and I would guess that a tiny percentage of those that actually are still street driven have the antifreeze drained... even the "hard core" track guys, standing rule or not. That's not my doing. it's just not practical.

If you were to roll down the list, the fast majority don't have even a fraction of the normal safety equipment required for racing cars... fuel cut-offs, roll cages, harnesses, fire supression... never mind the tech inspection amound to making sure the lugnuts are tight, and there's nothing loose in the interior. Lots of tracks are making alot of money running these events, and I suspect that's why they don't bust anyone's chops about that stuff. And given that long list, it's hardly worth getting uptight about antifreeze in particular.

Besides... a car could just as easily (in fact, FAR, FAR more likely) drop oil, and you can't ask people not to run THAT. The best requirement is to simply stipulate that the car's systems are sound, and that if it's leaking anything, it doesn't run.

I've done events as early as March in VA, and I know they run as late as Nov. or Dec. and local club events have been snowed on before... and i've come back to my car in the AM with it covered in frost and the temps having been down to freezing overnight. If you want to drain the coolant in NORTH HOLLYWOOD, be my guest, but nobody running a true street car in the northeast in 3-6 events a year is going to, and you can't blame them. Nobody is going to risk that with a $100k GT3 or Ferrari, let alone their RX7. Nobody. It's not worth laying the guilt trip on me.

Last edited by ptrhahn; 09-23-06 at 07:30 PM.
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Old 09-24-06, 10:39 AM
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If your car is totaly stock and street driven it does not need antifreeze/coolant while the engine is running. the thermostat will control the temperature in the engine and it is unlikely the radiator will freeze solid while you are on the track. The other thing is oil can be cleaned from the track and coolant does not clean easily. kitty litter and such does not work well on coolant. Like I said just because people who rent the track don't follow the rules does not prevent you from being proactive. I hope you never encounter fluids on the track when you are hot lapping your street car. I know many GT3 owners who run nothing but water in the car and they live all over the country. One day someone will enforce the rules and you will have to comply or stop hot lapping. This usually happens after someone gets hurt, so to is in all our hands to help prevent injuries. You can never convince me that it is fine to use coolant on a racetrack period.
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Old 09-24-06, 11:04 AM
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I'm fully aware that a car does not need antifreeze for "cooling".

It get's cold here. Sometimes cold enough to freeze water, even in months when track days occur. So, you leave the car outside overnight, and you could freeze the coolant. Not while it's running, while it's sitting overnight. I know water cools better than antifreeze. You think that, with a 3rd gen RX7, that if I could run pure distilled water I wouldn't do it? I run as little antifreeze as I can get away with.

I'm not trying ignore any rules for the sake of ignoring them. This one is a fine idea in a perfect world, or in true racing situations, but in the real world in the northeast, it isn't practical for track days and street cars. I'm not tring to convince you of anything being "fine" or not. It simply is what it is, and not just for me, for probably 90% of the people out there.







Originally Posted by tims
If your car is totaly stock and street driven it does not need antifreeze/coolant while the engine is running. the thermostat will control the temperature in the engine and it is unlikely the radiator will freeze solid while you are on the track. The other thing is oil can be cleaned from the track and coolant does not clean easily. kitty litter and such does not work well on coolant. Like I said just because people who rent the track don't follow the rules does not prevent you from being proactive. I hope you never encounter fluids on the track when you are hot lapping your street car. I know many GT3 owners who run nothing but water in the car and they live all over the country. One day someone will enforce the rules and you will have to comply or stop hot lapping. This usually happens after someone gets hurt, so to is in all our hands to help prevent injuries. You can never convince me that it is fine to use coolant on a racetrack period.
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Old 09-25-06, 03:51 AM
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Burping. Wow it takes me 5 minutes to fill and burp my rx and that's an over estimate... squeese the bottom hose until it stops burping... this thread is sad. If it doesn't get to 32 for more than 8 straight hours you have not much to worry about. Last winter here we had a week of lows in the low to mid 20's and in the mornings my car never had anything more than a little more than slush on top of the water. in november I run 25% and in march it's back to 100% water.
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Old 09-25-06, 11:27 AM
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Wow.

First off, the video link doesn't work for me but I wish I could see it (so I don't know if its a sanctioned race or a DE).

I have yet to run a DE that requires 100% water only. However, I know that most if not all racing sanctions do have that requirement. Would I run DE's if that was a requirement? Probably, my RX-7 is mainly for the track so it doesn't do much else, but I wouldn't be completely happy with it.

Most race cars rarely have their engines last more than a season (or more than one or two races for the pros) before being rebuilt. Without using some sort of corrosion inhibitor, I would not run DE's if I had a more expensive car. As for me, it would be too much of a pain to "completely" drain the system each time for a DE (as I would run a corrosion inhibitor on the street), but that's just me.

I understand why racing sanctions have the requirement. It probably the only slick (and flamable) liquid in a car you can eliminate currently and still compete. For DE's, IMO it would be pointless and would stop a lot of new people from trying the sport out.

Last edited by Mahjik; 09-25-06 at 11:30 AM.
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Old 09-26-06, 05:32 PM
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This is a sanctioning body rule that I have seen in every rulebook I have read, but it is also a track rule(which all track renters must follow racing, testing, or driving events) at every racetrack I have run at. I will state this again that just because your DE group does not check for it does not mean it is not a viable rule. And in this case a very legitimate rule. As for corossion inhibitors these are available and safe to use as long as they are not glycol based. I will tell you that the first time someone has an accident caused by antifreeze/coolant on the track at your DE events the rule will be enforced. be smart and be safe.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by tims
I will tell you that the first time someone has an accident caused by antifreeze/coolant on the track at your DE events the rule will be enforced. be smart and be safe.
tims,

You talk as if DE events are brand new and this is just waiting to happen.... Obviously, if it was that big of an issue, DE events would have it enforced now, but they don't (regardless of "track rules"). And that is the simple truth. Some tracks enforce some rules, some they don't (i.e. some tracks inforcing that headlights and such are taped over).

I'm not downplaying the seriousness of the issue. What I am saying is that with DE's, its just as likely to happen as some car laying down an oil slick on the track. The important thing is to have good corner workers and for people to be smart and pay attention to them while on the track.
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Old 09-26-06, 07:13 PM
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I don't run antifreeze, but I've looked through the GCR and the supps for several road race events, and I don't see any mention of anti-freeze. Checked three track web sites and none list rules there. I agree that its a bad idea, but if they don't allow it I've never run into it in fours years on-track.
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