Race Car Tech Discuss anything related to road racing and auto X.

adjustable sway bar

Old 07-16-02, 12:28 AM
  #1  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
adjustable sway bar

Anyone running with an adjustable sway bar (front preferably)? Just curious what you set it at for auto-x/road racing. I've got mine set at the halfway point ...
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 07-16-02, 09:28 AM
  #2  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have the Tripoint front bar and mounts; 5 different mounting holes in each blade. I use the second hole from the back for autox and the third one from the back for high speed (track) events. I am going to test a "half" setting soon; use the third hole on one side and the second on the other.

Car pushes big time in very slow corners with the bar at the third hole. Chassis feels great, but low grip for the tight autox corners.
DamonB is offline  
Old 07-16-02, 10:28 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
5 Year Member
 
twister's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does anyone run one with the adjuster inside the car? I have recently purchased one but have yet to fit it, keen for people's thoughts.
twister is offline  
Old 07-16-02, 11:28 PM
  #4  
Has been.. hangin' around
10 Year Member
 
Silkworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just don't see how you could without some kind of hydraulic setup to move the bar around...

PaulC
Silkworm is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 10:19 AM
  #5  
Rotary Enthusiast
10 Year Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Hollywood, Ca USA
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
with the tubular bar it is a straight forward install, no need for hydraulics. trans am cars have this setup standard. I have not found a need for it myself. fuel loads for most sprint races are light to begin with. unless you are running radial slicks and endurance events you can get away with the standard adjustable bar. most sanctioning bodies prohibit the use of cockpit adjustable suspensions.
tims is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 12:42 PM
  #6  
Has been.. hangin' around
10 Year Member
 
Silkworm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Milpitas, CA
Posts: 2,618
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
how do you adjust it in car then? Interesting, didn't know you could do it that way.

PaulC
Silkworm is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 12:57 PM
  #7  
Rotary Freak
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: l.a.
Posts: 1,631
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yeah where can i get the in car adjustable sway bars.
fdracer is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 01:32 PM
  #8  
Full Member
15 Year Member
 
Orange!FD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 100
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DamonB
...I am going to test a "half" setting soon; use the third hole on one side and the second on the other.
Don't you have to put a preload on the bar in order to put one side on the third hole and the other side on the second hole? Maybe it isn't enough preload to be important...
Orange!FD is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 02:03 PM
  #9  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Orange!FD


Don't you have to put a preload on the bar in order to put one side on the third hole and the other side on the second hole? Maybe it isn't enough preload to be important...
I don't think that you need to. At least, not with the Tripoint sway bar. I have the "half" setting on my car right now ... unfortunately, I still feel like the car washes out on tight turns.
I keep adjusting my rear shocks to get the car to rotate faster, but I was thinking that perhaps the sway bar should finally be tinkered with. So, DamonB, you think I should drop the other side down to the second hole for auto-x?
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 03:05 PM
  #10  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Orange!FD


Don't you have to put a preload on the bar in order to put one side on the third hole and the other side on the second hole? Maybe it isn't enough preload to be important...
The Tripoint bar has adjustable length drop links, so one ends up longer than the other in order to not preload the bar.

Last edited by DamonB; 07-17-02 at 03:26 PM.
DamonB is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 03:25 PM
  #11  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
RedRotor, you have adjustable shocks right? What kind? What are you running as an alignment?

Here is my personal preference to be taken with a grain of salt. I run Konis on all four corners with stock springs.

I leave the rears full soft; I could see wanting some shock in back to rotate the rear in really tight stuff, but the trade off is giving up grip on exit under throttle. I will not give up any exit speed whatsoever as I need to pick up the gas (boost) as early as possible to chase Z06's. A stiffer rear is going to make you wait slightly longer before you can pick up the throttle.

I run the fronts anywhere from full hard to half a turn from full hard depending on the course. Usually I am hard. Keep in mind I have run the car with several alignments and shocks before adding the Tripoint bar, so I knew what I and the chassis liked. I prefer the feel of the car at the stiffer (third hole) setting but it just gives up too much front grip so I run the second hole from the back. I want the front nailed because I want the front tires to go where I want NOW, but I have to be careful to not overdrive the rear. If the rear wants to go somewhere else it's my job as driver to keep it back there. Admittedly it's touchy when braking deep and in very fast slaloms (don't overcorrect or you're toast), but for me it's the quickest setup.

Keep in mind the front bar is adjustable but the chassis is only ever going to have so much grip. What the adjustable bar allows you to do is adjust the front end's grip relative to the rear. You can't "invent" grip, you can only take away what is already there so to speak. Pushing is certainly safer, but it's painfully slow on an autox course; especially with a turboed car. I try to drive neatly but on occasion will purposely spin the rears at mid corner in slow turns to get the RPM's up and back on boost before launching.
DamonB is offline  
Old 07-17-02, 07:56 PM
  #12  
Rotary Enthusiast
10 Year Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: North Hollywood, Ca USA
Posts: 1,289
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
the cockpit adjustable sway bar is accomplished with a morse type cable that adjusts the arm length from bar to end link. unfortunately I have a book and a catalog with a picture but no way to post it to the internet. Carrol Smith has a couple of pictures and Irv Hoerr Racing has the parts in there catalog.
tims is offline  
Old 07-19-02, 11:33 AM
  #13  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by DamonB
RedRotor, you have adjustable shocks right? What kind? What are you running as an alignment?
I'm running almost the identical setup to yours. I have Ben Drerup's old car ... if you ever met him. I run the Koni's 1/4 turn from full hard on the fronts and 1/2 turn from full soft on the rears. My alignment is modest:
TOE: 1/16" out (F); 1/32" in (R)
CAMBER: -1.3 all around
CASTER: +5.5 (that's all I could get)

Also, my Kumho's have gotten pretty hard. I bought some Formula V tire treatment, but I'm not ready to burn them off yet. I've been racing with my street tires for a few months now.

Originally posted by DamonB
I run the fronts anywhere from full hard to half a turn from full hard depending on the course. Usually I am hard.
Dude, you said hard .. heh,heh. No, seriously, I have been playing with that. In tight corners or turnarounds, I have to almost completely shutdown to get the car to rotate quick enough. I've stiffened up the rears to 1 turn from full soft and gotten good results in the turnarounds; but offsets were kinda squirrely. I don't react well to heavy oversteer and I tend to get on the gas too early ... so with that setup, I got into trouble.

Originally posted by DamonB
I try to drive neatly but on occasion will purposely spin the rears at mid corner in slow turns to get the RPM's up and back on boost before launching.
I've been learning myself to do this too. My heel-toe is painfully slow though.

So, what's your experience with the sway bar settings at the second hole? Do you feel like the car rolls too much in corners? I feel like the "halfway" setting might be too stiff at times ... like when I brake too late and try to correct, the car is hard to recover.
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 07-19-02, 11:53 AM
  #14  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
RedRotor, I leave the bar in the second hole from the back. It does roll a lot in fast sweeps, but I give up way too much in the tight stuff if I go stiffer.

With what you describe I would run the rears fully soft; it would seem to suit you better and keep you out of trouble with gassing it early. What tire pressures you running? What has always worked for me is to get the chassis setup first and then work with my front pressures to get the tires to scrub where I want (as in get all the grip from the front I can). At that point I set the rear pressure to make the car do what I want. For me, that means the rears are typically 4-5 lbs lower than the fronts.

I plan to come run an event in Austin soon since I have friends there and Donovan just needs me to come kick his M3's *** again

Last edited by DamonB; 07-19-02 at 11:55 AM.
DamonB is offline  
Old 07-19-02, 12:52 PM
  #15  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool, man. I run with 245/45's and I usually go 35 psi (F) and 31 psi (R).

Yeah, Donovan is pretty cocky. Nice guy ... but that license plate, "My 2nd M3" ... makes you want to stomp on him.

He hasn't been to last three Spokes events. I dunno where he's been. I think he may not like the Austin course. It's on an old runway, so it always ends up a big slalom with a tight turnaround at each end ... usually some stuff in the middle. Well, you'll see.

Laters,
Don
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 07-19-02, 01:20 PM
  #16  
Lives on the Forum
15 Year Member
 
DamonB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dallas
Posts: 9,617
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Those pressures on street tires or race tires? Either way they sound a little low. With as little camber as you're running I would expect at those pressures the tires are rolling over some. How do the shoulders look?

Donovan, Amita and I met in April at the Houston Tour. The three of us hit it off right away and he and I knew it was between the two of us to be last with all the big dogs there. Unfortunately I didn't drive well and last was me He's been giving me **** since and I had to wait until last weekend to get another chance at him. Remind him I carried a cone the first day and was still ahead Sunday it got worse for him

He and I will be in Houston Aug 10-11 for the next Divisional and we settle it once and for all seeings how it's one apiece right now. You should come; the course was fantastic last time even though I struggled.

Donovan did mention he hates the airport. Told me to come when it's at Tech Ridge?
DamonB is offline  
Old 07-19-02, 04:02 PM
  #17  
LS6 Convert
5 Year Member
Thread Starter
 
redrotorR1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 1,827
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Those pressures are actually for both street and race tires. The street tires don't show and shoulder roll. In fact, these BFG KDW's grip pretty darn well. The Kumho's were pretty hard last I ran them ... so I imagine that's why the low tire pressure didn't show on the tread.

I was thinking I ought to run a little more camber, but I do put a lot of highway miles on this car, so I don't want to wear the tires out THAT fast. Phil Weber (San Antonio) runs -2.2 camber, and 1/8" out (F) ... that guy is fast as hell. He did mention that he goes through tires relatively quick.

I plan on coming to the Houston divisional. I'll probably run in street tire class ... I'm running thin on funds right now, so new race tires are out of the question.

Tech Ridge is the old airport runway. Tech Ridge is the only site we run in Austin. Spokes goes out to Thunderhill Raceway 2-3 times a season. Maybe that's what he's referring to?
redrotorR1 is offline  
Old 11-05-04, 03:45 PM
  #18  
Rotary Freak
10 Year Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Julian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Longview, Texas
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
FD sway bars - what size tri-point front bar are people using for autocrossing? and rear stock, removed or stock with firmer bushings and links?
Julian is offline  
Old 11-05-04, 03:46 PM
  #19  
Rotary Freak
10 Year Member
iTrader: (14)
 
Julian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Longview, Texas
Posts: 1,855
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
additional; with stock springs, adjustable shocks and kumhos or hoosiers
Julian is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: adjustable sway bar


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: