Badog

I've always felt, reasoned and had experts agree that it's bad to have the trailing ignition fire before the leading. I believe this a PRIME engine popper when encountered at the right/enough times.

I just reviewed a map from a reputable mechanic. There were 22 incidents of negative split in his "tuned" map.

If you have a Datalogit, it's easy to check on the TRAILING screen. Click on the split checkbox.

CHECK YOUR MAPS!

jeff48

Amen

Badog
I love the redacted title line in the screen capture. The tuner's shall remain nameless. They know who they are

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

I was the first to ever post about not only negative split, but also inconsistant split on a map area.

Look at P15-N19. A 8 surrounded by 15 and 14s. Mazda uses a 15 split. No need for more than that.


To me this is very slopy programming. The stock PFC even comes this way.

Badog

Chuck, you have been places that others are just arriving at!

Jeff, had to "play lawyer" and make sure I was covered in case of libel.

spyfish007

Why do I have a feeling you are in columbus OH?

Badog

GO BUCKEYES!

Wait, we already went....and won.

GOOD JOB BUCKEYES!

jeff48

Badog,

OMG I just can't help myself.........I do that almost as unconsciously as I do when explaining to my wife why I had to have that _____________(Fill in the blank) for the 7.

TwinTriangles

So if you have any negative numbers in IGT or IGL is it considered bad ?
Or would you not see those neg. splits with the commander?
Because we are the ones who put those numbers in there, so if any neg. number there is bad why dont you put a higher number there and a lower number elsewhere?
This negative split thing gets me totally lost, sorry...

TwinTriangles

If that were the case then "modified map 9" would be bad and modified map 3 I believe (spyfish) would be bad?
I dont understand split, I hate it, I dont get it, I hate it, I dont want it, I hate it...!
Sorry *sniff* im a little emosional right now *sniff*

Badog

Split is the leading minus the trailing. So if leading was 16 and trailing was 20, your split would be -4! Not good. Make sense?

Tony

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Time for me to BRAG about my tuning perfectionistic behavior.

After adjusting IGl and IGT for good safe HP, I also cleaned up the split.

See my attacheded maps.

TwinTriangles

Oh Ok thanks well put, I was reading some old posts but I didnt come across an easy explanation like that so compare each IGL cell to each IGT cell and if you have any neg number between them that is bad split....
I was thinking looking at sat just the IGL or just the IGT and seeing neg #'s was bad, in other words finding split takes a while unless you have datalogit...

Badog

Looking good, Chuck!

Badog

Word!

SPOautos

wow chuck, your running quite a lot more advance that me in the last few pressure rows. We have about the same at peak tq but you pull yours up a lot higher than I am in the higher rpms. I'm planing on bumping all mine up one more number after peak tq but even with that yours will still be a few degrees higher. Maybe I could bump mine up even higher....nah, I'm already making good power, no need to play with fire, I like being conservative lol

Also, have you guys noticed if lowering your split required you to run more fuel???

**********ALSO, IF YOU DONT HAVE A DATALOGIT YOU CANT USE CHUCKS MAP!!!!!! **********

STEPHEN

skotx

We could still use his timing without datalogit, right? Since timing is WYSIWYG and not based on corrections?

skotx

I show split with my map viewer: http://pb.kenjim.com/pfc/

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

I have only DATALOGIT and dyno tuned up to 14PSI above 6000 rpm and 15.5PSI in the mid range around 4500 rpm. That was with a Halman manual boost controller. Rows P19 and R20 have not been run yet.


I just installed a Blitz and will soon be going for higher boost. But first; I will be moving my air temp sender to the Greddy elbo or IC outlet. I am also thinking of changing the absolute pressure values for some P rows after I calibrate the PFC to Autometer boost gauge to the Blitz to the DATALOGIT.

I compared my early 2002 old PFC to Autometer pressure test to values from a DATALOGIT run, and nothing match up. Like all three gave a different pressure values for the same pressure depending if I used pressure or map sensor voltage.

I plan to hook all of them up, and apply pressure in 2 psi steps from 10 to 18 and record it all. So far with limited driving with the Blitz, it also reads higher than the PFC and seems equal to the Autometer. It is hard
to test at night in traffic when driving without a data observer with you.

An example of what I am trying to do:
If most of the equipment says boost is 12 psi, and the PFC says less, such that it's selected row/rows are lower
then they should be: like abs pressure of 17500 instead of 18000; then I will replace the 18000 P row pressure value with 17500. This will cause the PFC to pick a higher row or interporlation where it should have been in the first place.

But since the DATALOGIT provides this data, I have to see what it also says when I have 12psi. It might also be off. Maybe I will have 12AM and Blitz;11PFC; and 11.5DAT.

This might seem extreme, but it keeps me busy and from being bored.

Badog

No you're not. Not at that link you're not. You're just comparing Fuel, IGL, and IGT between disparate maps.

Take the (IGL - IGT).

Badog

If you're going to start billing yourself a tuner, you're going to have to start doing some of the work.

You make changes to your split, re-test, and check if any change in AFR. You could also monitor INJ duty at the same points.

SPOautos

Actually, I havent "billed" myself a "tuner" and I was asking to see if you guys had the same results I did. When lowering my split my a/f's were getting leaner. Just seeing if anyone else had similar results. It was really a indiscrete way of bringing the topic up so that people would check thier a/f's when playing with the split.

Also, exactly what are all your credentials regarding tuning to become a professional "tuner" and be able to literally "bill" for it? Hmm, I'd say prob the about the same experiences I have, well prob a little more.....but then again I dont claim to be a tuner or charge for it either.

STEPHEN

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

From the experince shown on this forum, there are a few of you who are more knowledgable than some of the so called professional tuners. Some of these professional tuners keep putting out the same crap even after two years of PFC sales.

But that is normal life in this world. All one can do is inform others and try to help them.

jeff48

Lest we forget....

Mazda dealership mechanics call themselves professional, but how many of them would we allow to look at our cars from across the street...let alone tune them? For the most part everyone in this forum has better credentials as a tuner than most of the ASE certs I know.

BTW no disrespect to ASE meant...my soon to be son-in-law is multiply certified and a damn fine tech (audi specialist) but still admits I know more about 7s than most people he knows....and I think of myself as a beginner.

SPOautos

I definatly agree with that!!!!!

Look Tony, I know your a great guy and I know you know what your doing. I'm not exactly sure what to think of your post. Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong, I dont know but thats the 2nd thing you've said on the forum that rubed me wrong. The other being in the thread I had about Steve Kan passing thru B'ham, you seemed to have a little attitude about that for some reason......which I didnt and still dont have any idea why.

Maybe I'm interpreting your comments wrong, after all it is hard to express emotion via the internet.

STEPHEN

Badog

Really? Interesting. My results don't agree with yours.