fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I just finished having my car dyno tunned last night and it blow the rear apex seals. My mods are on the signature. I just need some advice as of what happen last night. According to my logging, the the air intake temps were 34c,knock was 18 at the time,water temp was 90c,duty cycle was 45%,boost was 1.10 bar, It made 345.63 rwh,276ft torque. Im looking at my dyno sheet with a 4th gear pull at 130mph and everything was fine. I just need some advice from BDC or Steve chun.
Thanks Robert

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Where are the maps?

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Im trying to download the maps

Michael Knight

iTrader: (1)

Your problem was no pistons under da hood yo!

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

No it was because I was producing some real power.

Michael Knight

iTrader: (1)

All that work for 350 rwhp, Relax, I'm just joking. I hope you find out what happened. That really sucks Rob!
Dmoney

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

"boost was 1.10 bar, It made 345.63 rwh,276ftlb".

1.1 bar is 15.95psi. For a single and ported at that boost, power is way low.
I did better with non-seq twins at 15psi with almost stock ports.
The duty cycle of 45% is low if that is at the point of max power.

Most important, you did not state the AFR range for that power.

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

afr was 10.9. Jason from rx7.net will post my maps. I don't have photo shop. True it was low but, My whole thing was to make power and be safe. Not wild!!!
Thanks Robert

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Sorry the duty cycle was 55%. Misprint

jamespond24

iTrader: (13)

This is on 91 or 93 octane? It could be bad gas.

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

91. Good old socal gas

Barry Bordes

What were your common max knock values that you have been seeing in the past week or so? Have you disassembled the engine to check actual damage? The sharp end (2mm triangle) of the apex seal?
Barry

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Max knocks on the dyno was 35.When it blow it was 18 knocks. Im in the process of removing the engine and disassembling it.
Thanks Robert

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

IGL Map :
12 12 12 20 31 32 32 33 35 38 41 43 45 46 48 49 49 50 50 51
12 12 12 20 31 32 32 33 35 38 41 43 45 46 48 49 49 50 50 51
12 12 12 18 31 32 32 33 35 38 41 43 45 46 48 49 49 50 50 51
12 12 12 18 30 31 32 33 34 37 40 42 44 45 47 48 49 49 50 51
12 12 12 18 28 29 30 32 33 36 38 40 42 44 47 48 48 49 50 50
12 12 12 18 26 27 28 30 32 34 37 39 38 40 45 45 47 48 50 50
12 12 12 24 23 22 24 24 25 27 30 33 36 39 42 43 43 45 49 49
9 12 14 19 20 20 22 22 24 25 28 29 35 38 40 41 42 44 46 46
7 9 12 17 18 18 19 21 21 23 25 28 33 35 38 39 40 43 43 43
6 7 9 16 17 17 18 20 20 21 24 27 32 32 36 37 39 39 39 39
3 5 7 12 16 16 16 18 19 21 22 26 29 31 32 33 33 33 35 35
2 4 5 11 13 13 14 17 19 21 22 26 27 28 28 29 29 30 32 32
1 3 4 8 11 11 13 16 19 21 22 23 25 25 25 26 27 28 28 28
1 2 2 4 9 9 11 15 19 20 21 21 22 23 23 24 25 26 25 26
1 2 2 4 7 8 10 13 16 18 18 18 18 19 19 21 22 24 24 25
1 2 2 3 5 7 8 11 13 15 16 16 16 16 16 18 19 22 22 25
1 2 2 3 3 4 6 9 11 13 12 10 11 13 13 15 16 20 21 23
-1 0 0 1 0 2 2 5 6 8 8 7 7 10 10 12 13 17 19 21
-1 0 0 1 0 1 2 3 6 7 8 6 5 8 7 8 11 14 17 19
-1 0 0 1 0 1 2 3 5 4 5 3 2 5 3 5 8 13 15 17

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

IGt Maps:
0 0 4 15 26 27 27 28 30 33 36 38 40 41 43 44 44 45 45 46
0 0 4 15 26 27 27 28 30 33 36 38 40 41 43 44 44 45 45 46
0 0 4 15 26 27 27 28 30 33 36 38 40 41 43 44 44 45 45 46
0 0 4 18 25 26 27 28 29 32 35 37 39 40 42 43 44 44 45 46
0 0 0 18 23 24 25 27 28 31 33 35 37 39 42 43 43 44 45 45
2 2 2 18 21 22 23 25 27 29 32 34 33 35 40 40 41 43 45 45
2 2 2 15 18 17 19 19 19 21 25 28 31 34 37 38 38 40 44 44
1 1 11 13 15 15 17 17 18 19 22 24 30 33 35 36 37 39 41 43
1 1 7 8 13 13 14 16 16 15 20 23 28 30 33 34 35 38 39 39
-4 -3 -1 6 7 7 8 10 10 11 14 17 22 22 26 27 29 29 29 29
-7 -5 -3 2 6 6 6 8 9 11 12 16 19 21 22 23 23 23 25 25
-8 -6 -5 1 3 3 4 7 9 11 12 16 17 18 18 19 19 20 22 22
-9 -7 -6 -2 1 1 3 6 9 11 12 13 15 15 15 16 17 18 18 18
-9 -8 -8 -6 -1 -1 1 5 9 10 11 11 12 13 13 14 15 16 15 16
-9 -8 -8 -6 -3 -2 0 3 6 8 8 8 8 9 9 11 12 14 14 15
-9 -8 -8 -7 -5 -3 -2 1 3 5 6 6 6 6 6 8 9 12 12 15
-9 -8 -8 -7 -7 -6 -4 -1 1 3 2 2 3 3 3 5 6 10 11 13
-11 -10 -10 -9 -10 -8 -8 -5 -4 0 -1 -1 -1 -1 -1 1 3 7 9 11
-11 -10 -10 -9 -10 -9 -8 -7 -5 -1 -1 -2 -3 -3 -5 -3 0 5 7 9
-11 -10 -10 -9 -10 -9 -8 -7 -5 -3 -3 -4 -5 -5 -7 -5 -2 3 5 7

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

timing Spilt:
12 12 8 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
12 12 8 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
12 12 8 3 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
12 12 8 0 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
12 12 12 0 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
10 10 10 0 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 6 5 5 5
10 10 10 9 5 5 5 5 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5
8 11 3 6 5 5 5 5 6 6 6 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 3
6 8 5 9 5 5 5 5 5 8 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 5 4 4
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 8 8 10 10 10 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 8 9 8 8 11 11 11 10 10 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 11 8 9 8 8 11 12 11 11 9 10 10
10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 10 7 8 7 7 10 10 10 10 10 10 10

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I just can't do a snapshot. So this is the best I can do.
Thanks Robert

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

That is not a valid excuse or reason for such poor performance.

Made 347whp at 15psi on non-seq twins with almost stock ports, and ran it from 2000 to 2006 when I went single without any problems. The same engine is in the car with a GT35R and over 30K miles on it. NOT WILD, but well tuned and reliable setup.

You P17 and P18 which is about where you ran is basically too hot for a street port. P17 is hotter than mine and P18 is has areas the same or hotter than mine over 4k. Split is erratic under boost and too high on low boost to idle.

Too much timing blew it with you SOCAL gas and too much fuel and ?? made bad power.

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

I did not tune this car. It was tunned by a local tunner. I was refered by a well know shop here in Socal. If p17 and p18 is to hot , than explain what is should have been. You are being very vague. I have read alot of your post lately and it seem that you are being like reted. Im not being a dick but your answers are not what im looking for. I need a real experence tunner to look at these maps. I was thinking Jason from rx7.net would post my snapshots. So please if you can't give advise with real answers ,then don't post.
Thanks Robert

Jason

iTrader: (5)

Here are the snapshots.

Jason

fc3s91

iTrader: (23)

Thanks Jason

RETed

I was wondering what the **** my nick had anything to do with Power FC's...
Well, up yours too.


-Ted

BDC

Sorry to hear about that.

It's plain and simple -- too much boost (heat) on too little fuel octane. This is an unfortunate example of what I talk about when I go into the subject of running too much boost on pump gas. Pump gas sucks. There's no guarantee (in terms of consistency) in what you're buying when you do buy. A fact of life about pump gas is that they're not all created the same, even though you may think you're getting something good. This is one of the stark differences between race fuels and cheap pump fuels. As Chuck quoted already, if the boost really was 1.10 bar (15.95psi), then that's way too much for something that's being regularly beat-on, especially in a taller gear like 4th where the motor has plenty of time to load up and produce alot of heat. It will work one day, will dyno well and show some good numbers, then all the sudden on the next day, poof, for seemingly no reason whatsoever. Consider a question: Why is it this just about never, ever happens when running race fuel?

Unfortunate and costly examples of what you've run into here are the very reasons why when I tune a customer's car that I have the wick (as it were) turned down to 12-13psi when it's a heavy-footed person that's driving.

At that 1.10bar boost, lead advance should be no more than 12-13*BTDC with no skinnier than a 10* split when using 91-93octane pump fuel. There's no need for alot of advance on a rotary, with the exception of possibly advancing 1 or possibly 2* once the RPM's are well past torque peak where the VE begins to take a nose-dive.

If you're going to stick with pump fuels, keep the boost down and use the best, highest quality name-brand fuel you can. Even better if you stick to a certain station near your house where you fuel up.

B

BDC

I keep seeing the same iteration of this IGL/IGT combo and a good chunk of it IMO is very poorly done. Needless to say, assuming that P18 = 20000 on the load reference scale, load values past N16 are way way too advanced. How many other FD's have used this same IGL advance graph and have blown up up high?

Remember -- The PowerFC is also adding 2* of actual, effective timing ontop of what's listed in the IGL.

B

BDC

+1.

B