Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

I've been looking and reading throught threads for a few hours now...I am somewhat confused, it's probably cuz I'm a visual learner, and having no pics just makes my head hurt...

Ok here is my situation, I have 95 FD and have a stock ECU, intake, downpipe, Cat-Back, boost controller wthich is set to standard 10psi (mainly for boost spikes)...
Items going in same time in the future:
I have a Power FC + Datalogit which I have prepped to go in the car (by twisting the pins inside the unit)
I just got a Borla XR-1 Midpipe, Waiting on a front-mount intercooler...and parts for my Koyo Radiator...

So once I install those items, I am going to need to tune it, I'm from Northern virginia and not trying to drive faar...so am I right that the closest place that tunes FD's and knows what they are doing is PF Supercars in Frederick MD...

And I do need a dyno to tune it properly, correct?

So another of many of my question is this, does the shop usually have the wideband that they plug into the car and tune or do they need me to already have it in my car?

And once tuned do I really need a wideband in my car?

And before I am tuned do you recommend me installing something not 2 expensive, and what WHP do you think I will be pulling with the mods I listed?

As a few parts I was thinking a Walbro 255lph fuel pump came to mind as well as upgrading my spark plugs which I beleive are heat range 7 leading and 9 trailing to (both leading and trailing in 9 heat range) which is what someone suggested on the forum I read and what kind should I go with (regular, platinum, irridium NGK/Denso) and yes I got a set of new Magnecore 8.5mm wires...

I beleive these are the questinons I have right now....If it makes a differense, I use the car as a daily driver, I am aggressive and like to push it once in a while, track, drag, solo, drifting fun...and any help will be much appreciated...sorry for the long write up, I just dont want any surprises and want to understand some of the components of the car as much as possible...as I want to learn with my car...Thanks...

rynberg

I don't understand your post.

If you are going to have the car tuned by someone, you don't really need to understand what's happening. If you are tuning the car yourself, you must have a wideband+datalogit.

Wideband: www.plxdevices.com
Here's two tuning guides, one by Chuck and the other by Wargasm:

https://www.rx7club.com/power-fc-forum-47/pre-tuning-preparation-363664/
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/single-turbo-pfc-tuning-document-here-374526/

If you want to pay to have your car tuned, post in your regional forum and see if you can get a group to have Steve Kan come out and do his magic.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Appreciate the info...I guess what I meant to say is that I am going to need someone to tune the car with the options or mods I have listed, but I am not familliar enought to do it myself just yet, but I do want to learn...as faar as Steve Kan is concerned, I would love to, but I dont want do drive all the way to DE or NJ, farthest I ever go is MD, if in VA that would be excellent, So if there is a way for him to swing by here in a month or two...WOW...

So I guess in your reply you are saying that the tuning shop should have all the necessary equipment and all i need is my Power FC + Datalogit....correct...

PS

How much do you think that will run me...

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

You do not NEED to have a wideband, you can tune just as well with a narrow.

How much will it cost? That depends upon just how much you want to spend. The more tuning time, generally the better the map is as it allows for more and more finer tuning but tuning does have diminishing returns, i.e., you get the most out of the initial phases of tuning. Later stages just get more and more finite.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

If you want an accurate AFR tune the narrow band is crap and will not work.
They are made only to be accurate around 14.7AFR and when you tune down to the 10.5 to 11.8 AFR range they are very inaccurate.

rynberg

Wow, give out bad advice much?

papsmagu

iTrader: (19)

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

WOW, now I read plenty of info, and narrow band does seem to be crappy, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if I were to try to save money and instead of taking the car to the tuning shop buy a wideband with that money which I am thinking of doing, I mean I do beleave that the base mod map on the Power FC is good, but I do need to tune it for a midpipe and as I asked earlier how much fues improvement will a walbro 255lph pump will help out instead of the OEM unit that is in there right now, and I was also interested in how much a typical tuning of my basic mods will produce I.E. WHP and such as well as how much is a typical cos of tuning the car on a dyno per hour these days and can some one be able to direct me to the map that is proper for my mods so that I can modify it throught my Commander...

Thanks...

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Wow, guess I'm pretty stupid huh and you're all so freakin' smart...

You guys make it sound like you absolutely need to have a wideband to tune or you can't do it at all, that is not accurate so don't be such a smartass.

Widebands just give a wider resolution vs. a narrow but they measure the same thing and yes I have used narrow to tune... a wide just makes it easier to see out of the edges of the reaction.

Why don't you all ask RETed what he thinks as well since he's posted the same statement as I did in other posts.

Getting back to this individual's question; instead of spending money on tuning equipment since you're new to this, spend your money on paying somebody who already knows what they are doing and has the equipment in their facility. You will probably be much happier in the long run.

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Narrow band and wideband are made for two different types of tuning.

If you don't want to spend $200 to $300 for the proper equipment that is your decision, but do not mislead people here on this PFC forum.

Turbo 3

iTrader: (3)

Well, guess I'm caught. It was my intention all along to mislead this poor individual by telling him that while a wideband is certainly useful, it is not the only option available. Shame on me. Just like tuning on a dyno is an absolute necessity as well, right? Again, while it certainly makes things easier it is not the only option, although it is generally the safest vs. the street.

Later guys, sorry I tried to help.

Trevor

I've datalogged widebands and narrowbands side by side and noticed the narrowband telling me that the engine was leaning out at full throttle (as the NB sensor heated up) while the wideband showed it getting richer (which was accurate).

You can't tune full throttle effectively with only a narrowband...and that especially holds true for the relatively-rich AFR's you see with a turbo rotary.

And Max_Spd, a dyno isn't absolutely necessary for tuning a car unless you live in the heart of the city. Street tuning a car (think WAY out in the country on a deserted road here) can actually be more accurate. Matter of fact some dyno types are only useful to see what your power curve looks like. Those particular brands don't have enough load to simulate street/track pulls so you end up coming off the dyno with a lean tune.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Yes I do agree^^^

As i mentioned to you all I am new to the tuning map and ignition and all the number stuff, but I really do want to learn, but dont want to blow the motor in the process, and the reason for me wanting to do the tuning on the dyno is because of the HP/TQ measurments I get so I know what my power increases were and such...

Any more i deas anyone???

PS

Northern VA people, who has good tuning besides PF Supercars and how much does it typically run...

Thanks...all

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

I compared a NB to a WB with a bunch of datalogs and for almost any given AFR on the WB the NB AFR would vary by 1 to 2 AFR points. Try to tune for an 11:1 AFR on the NB and you could get richer than a 10 or leaner than 13:1

Just my data, I have no opinion regarding folks tuning their own car with a NB.

RETed

Hmm...I dunno where this come from, but...

I think wide-bands are overrated.
I prefer EGT's myself.
You can't tune ignition timing with a wide-band.
Newbies can get into a lot of trouble telling them to shoot for a certain AFR.
I've seen cars blow up even though it was hitting solid 10.5's on the wide-band.

The instrument is only as useful as the tuner's abilities.


-Ted

cewrx7r1

iTrader: (2)

Yes there is another factor besides AFRs it is called TIMING. Both have to be correct for the engine to be safe.

But this thread was about AFR tuning and changed over to comparing widebands to narrow bands.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Yeah I know...lol

No it all good as you all know the more the knowledge the better, as the tittle says, Lots of tuning questions...

Yes tuning does consist of timimg and A/F, now how does one measure/tune the timing w/EGT gauge???

Can someone link some usefull info that ME, THe newbie of tuning will be able to comprehend...

Thanks to all of you, my tuning headache is starting to slightly clear up...lol

All of the info has been good knowledge so please dont stop...hehe

RETed

You can tune fuel with an EGT gauge.
But you already know that...


-Ted

pluto

Yes you can, that's how i did it back in 97-98.....but the problem is, you won't know where the rich/lean spots are. You can tell that somewhere is lean/rich but hard to pin point the exact rpm.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Good info...

Now can someone give me some suggestions on what I should get in addition, I will have $500 to add before I get it tuned, so is fuel pump, or something worth getting, I am trying to get 320RWH from this setup with 10psi stock boost...

Any help is appreciated....thanks....

Jay7 Nyc

iTrader: (3)

Power FC, data logic and stock twins @10-12 psi with full exhuast should get you around 330hp.. Thats with stock fuel system, I would upgrade to a walbro fuel pump and 1300-1600 secondary injectors.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Yeah 1300cc secondary injectors and a walbro 255lph fuel pump sounds good, couple more little questions, I know the the rx7store.net has the 1300cc that plug directly into the stock location and they require that my own 850cc injectors are needed as a core, and they charge 330 or so for them...now i guess they hone and port them and such to flow more fuel, now is there someone locally who knows what they are doing can do the same for me so that i can save some $$$, cuz 330 for a modified injectors altho a pair sounds a pit much...I think...

Any opinions?

Matt Hey

I believe rx7store.net sends the injectors out to be modified by...

http://www.rceng.com

I have heard a few other places may do the mod (Venom?) but be careful as there are some falsly advertised (Venom?) injectors on E-bay. The for sale section sometimes has 1300cc injectors pretty reasonably priced but there is always some risk involved. The injectors don't look very easy to modify to me. I doubt you will find a local place to do it but shipping isn't that bad.

rynberg

RC Engineering and Witch Hunter are two reliable places to bore out the injectors -- www.rceng.com and www.witchhunter.com.

Max_Spd

iTrader: (78)

Great, Thanks...