Power FC Best Tuning Facility/Person
01-06-04, 06:18 PM
#26
Z32PFC
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Re: Best Tuning Facility/Person
Originally posted by TwinTriangles
Hey guys, Im looking to get tuned by a professional. Im lookin for someone experienced with the PowerFC timing for streetported motors and such, my fuel maps are all nice and tuned but its the timing I cant comprehend so Im interested in paying someone to do it. Where or who would be the best person to do it ? Im considering cruisin over to rx7store.net and and not concerned with the fact the its 700miles from here...
Anyone got input ?
Hey guys, Im looking to get tuned by a professional. Im lookin for someone experienced with the PowerFC timing for streetported motors and such, my fuel maps are all nice and tuned but its the timing I cant comprehend so Im interested in paying someone to do it. Where or who would be the best person to do it ? Im considering cruisin over to rx7store.net and and not concerned with the fact the its 700miles from here...
Anyone got input ?
01-06-04, 06:30 PM
#27
NYC's Loudest FD
I don't know how far you're willing to ship your car, but I would highly recommend http://www.groundzeromotorsports.com/ Ralph(forum member name: Xcessive, he actually replied in this thread above) is VERY, VERY knowledgeable in tuning the PFC for high HP, as well as part throttle driveability, which is actually the hardest part of tuning a car when you're talking programmable fuel management and alot of tuners I think sometimes don't concentrate too much on, but Ralph has done his homework, his shop is in Oregon. I would also recommend another forum member Boostn7, he's also VERY capable, and knowledgeable, he drives his FD everyday, with the PFC and Datalogit, and has seen almost any driveablility scenario, as well as make good HP #'s, you'd have to PM him to see if he's willing to tune your car because he has a busy schedule, and is often turning away jobs lately because he simply doesn't have the time, he's located in NJ. You can search the threads to see some of their posts.
Last edited by RX794; 01-06-04 at 06:33 PM.
01-06-04, 10:18 PM
#28
You guys are reading way too much into downpipe versus tailpipe AFRs.
Downpipe is fine if far enough from the turbo to ensure the sensor doesn't get too hot (readings will be off and sensor life will suffer). Tailpipe is fine and AFR results are same in my experience if downpipe location is proper ... these results are with no cat and no airpump. Throw a cat and especially an airpump into the mix and the data becomes questionable.
Be aware that with the stock setup the airpump can also put air into the exhaust mani upstream of the turbo therefore upstream of the downpipe. I have seen effects of the airpump up to and above 4k rpm under WOT roll-on testing.
Downpipe is fine if far enough from the turbo to ensure the sensor doesn't get too hot (readings will be off and sensor life will suffer). Tailpipe is fine and AFR results are same in my experience if downpipe location is proper ... these results are with no cat and no airpump. Throw a cat and especially an airpump into the mix and the data becomes questionable.
Be aware that with the stock setup the airpump can also put air into the exhaust mani upstream of the turbo therefore upstream of the downpipe. I have seen effects of the airpump up to and above 4k rpm under WOT roll-on testing.
01-07-04, 08:14 PM
#31
Lives on the Forum
Air pump is out of the car. Air pump pipe, plugged with a bypass plug.
Originally posted by Tim Benton
Manny, have you taken the airpump off the car or unplugged the airpump electrical connector? If not, it is still flowing air into the manifold, but not to the cat.
Tim
Manny, have you taken the airpump off the car or unplugged the airpump electrical connector? If not, it is still flowing air into the manifold, but not to the cat.
Tim
01-08-04, 09:03 AM
#33
Lives on the Forum
Rx7 Store Dyno Plot
Cool, no problem Tim!
BTW, here's my dyno plot from last weekend. Not quite as good as yours...Jason tells me I need an ignition amplifier (Twin Power or Jacobson) for more power production. 
Originally posted by Tim Benton
cool, just checking
Tim
cool, just checking
Tim
01-08-04, 06:38 PM
#34
Manny,
I'll send you my .dat file from my 363 rwhp run at 14.22 psi. You do have the datalogit right? You can do a comparo of the 2 maps and see what's different and what works with my car timing and fuel wise. Granted my A/F were in the 11.4 range, a tad leaner than your runs but still safe enough for me.
Tim
I'll send you my .dat file from my 363 rwhp run at 14.22 psi. You do have the datalogit right? You can do a comparo of the 2 maps and see what's different and what works with my car timing and fuel wise. Granted my A/F were in the 11.4 range, a tad leaner than your runs but still safe enough for me.
Tim
01-08-04, 06:42 PM
#35
although I don't doubt you need a ignition amp, it's hard to tell with the mustang dyno that you have ignition break up at the top end like most can obviously see on a dynojet. Jason might also use a different smoothing number, if the mustang has one, that softens the peaks and valleys at the top end and makes it harder to discern ignition breakup, since looking at the dyno sheet, I can't see any break up.
Tim
Tim
01-08-04, 11:57 PM
#36
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From my experience, most ignition breakup or look alike
on a dynojet, is because they use a crappy magnetic pickup. I had a dynojet dyno for three years and the pickup sucked along with the limited capabilities and the
dyno chart showed it. I bought the mustang dyno for eddy current capabilities and most important the add on measuring devices possible especially the optical pickup.
With the optical pickup for rpm there is no noise like magnetic and you can also measure clutch, or tire slippeage to explain a lot of graph variations. Also if you know that there is no slippage from clutch or tire, boost
will measure correctly and not vary with the slippage.
We can graph up to 16 channels at once of diff inputs
like egt,afr,boost, vacume,air temp, knock,fuel pressure,
and more. If you dont know what other things are going
on when looking at erratic hp graphs, its real hard
to pinpoint the actual reason. Sorry so long
The eddycurrent dyno is great test instrament not
just and accelerometer. Ralph
on a dynojet, is because they use a crappy magnetic pickup. I had a dynojet dyno for three years and the pickup sucked along with the limited capabilities and the
dyno chart showed it. I bought the mustang dyno for eddy current capabilities and most important the add on measuring devices possible especially the optical pickup.
With the optical pickup for rpm there is no noise like magnetic and you can also measure clutch, or tire slippeage to explain a lot of graph variations. Also if you know that there is no slippage from clutch or tire, boost
will measure correctly and not vary with the slippage.
We can graph up to 16 channels at once of diff inputs
like egt,afr,boost, vacume,air temp, knock,fuel pressure,
and more. If you dont know what other things are going
on when looking at erratic hp graphs, its real hard
to pinpoint the actual reason. Sorry so long
The eddycurrent dyno is great test instrament not
just and accelerometer. Ralph
Last edited by Xcessive; 01-09-04 at 12:19 AM.
01-09-04, 07:10 AM
#38
Lives on the Forum
Tim,
No, Rx7 Store uses THEIR FC Datalogit. Yeah Jason wanted to stay below 11 because I was running 1/2 tank 110 leaded Cam 2. Apparently the AFR could lean out as much 0.5 point bringing my AFR to 11.4 with high test pump gas (92 to 94 unleaded).
No, Rx7 Store uses THEIR FC Datalogit. Yeah Jason wanted to stay below 11 because I was running 1/2 tank 110 leaded Cam 2. Apparently the AFR could lean out as much 0.5 point bringing my AFR to 11.4 with high test pump gas (92 to 94 unleaded).
Originally posted by Tim Benton
Manny,
I'll send you my .dat file from my 363 rwhp run at 14.22 psi. You do have the datalogit right? You can do a comparo of the 2 maps and see what's different and what works with my car timing and fuel wise. Granted my A/F were in the 11.4 range, a tad leaner than your runs but still safe enough for me.
Tim
Manny,
I'll send you my .dat file from my 363 rwhp run at 14.22 psi. You do have the datalogit right? You can do a comparo of the 2 maps and see what's different and what works with my car timing and fuel wise. Granted my A/F were in the 11.4 range, a tad leaner than your runs but still safe enough for me.
Tim
01-09-04, 07:14 AM
#39
Lives on the Forum
Ignition Break-up
My engine was popping so much midway through the tuning process, we pulled the spark plugs to find them fouled only after 4300 miles. They were junk copper NGK BUR9EQs (I mistakenly installed nonPlatinum last August doh!). With new platinum NGK 9s all around, we still had some popping @ WOT at the upper end of the rev range indicating some ignition break up.
Yes, you're looking at a smoothed Mustang Dyno dyno plot.
Ignition amps are on my list, but not sure which amp I should go with, Twin Power or Jacobson
BTW, I'm thinking hard about attending Peachtree Chapter's Road Atlanta school March 20/21. I'll let you know if I commit to it...
Yes, you're looking at a smoothed Mustang Dyno dyno plot.
Ignition amps are on my list, but not sure which amp I should go with, Twin Power or Jacobson
BTW, I'm thinking hard about attending Peachtree Chapter's Road Atlanta school March 20/21. I'll let you know if I commit to it...
Originally posted by Tim Benton
although I don't doubt you need a ignition amp, it's hard to tell with the mustang dyno that you have ignition break up at the top end like most can obviously see on a dynojet. Jason might also use a different smoothing number, if the mustang has one, that softens the peaks and valleys at the top end and makes it harder to discern ignition breakup, since looking at the dyno sheet, I can't see any break up.
Tim
although I don't doubt you need a ignition amp, it's hard to tell with the mustang dyno that you have ignition break up at the top end like most can obviously see on a dynojet. Jason might also use a different smoothing number, if the mustang has one, that softens the peaks and valleys at the top end and makes it harder to discern ignition breakup, since looking at the dyno sheet, I can't see any break up.
Tim
Last edited by SleepR1; 01-09-04 at 07:18 AM.
01-09-04, 07:20 AM
#40
Lives on the Forum
Yeah, the Mustang Dyno has a ton of data input. It really makes Dyno Jet's look dated
Originally posted by Xcessive
From my experience, most ignition breakup or look alike
on a dynojet, is because they use a crappy magnetic pickup. I had a dynojet dyno for three years and the pickup sucked along with the limited capabilities and the
dyno chart showed it. I bought the mustang dyno for eddy current capabilities and most important the add on measuring devices possible especially the optical pickup.
With the optical pickup for rpm there is no noise like magnetic and you can also measure clutch, or tire slippeage to explain a lot of graph variations. Also if you know that there is no slippage from clutch or tire, boost
will measure correctly and not vary with the slippage.
We can graph up to 16 channels at once of diff inputs
like egt,afr,boost, vacume,air temp, knock,fuel pressure,
and more. If you dont know what other things are going
on when looking at erratic hp graphs, its real hard
to pinpoint the actual reason. Sorry so long
The eddycurrent dyno is great test instrament not
just and accelerometer. Ralph
From my experience, most ignition breakup or look alike
on a dynojet, is because they use a crappy magnetic pickup. I had a dynojet dyno for three years and the pickup sucked along with the limited capabilities and the
dyno chart showed it. I bought the mustang dyno for eddy current capabilities and most important the add on measuring devices possible especially the optical pickup.
With the optical pickup for rpm there is no noise like magnetic and you can also measure clutch, or tire slippeage to explain a lot of graph variations. Also if you know that there is no slippage from clutch or tire, boost
will measure correctly and not vary with the slippage.
We can graph up to 16 channels at once of diff inputs
like egt,afr,boost, vacume,air temp, knock,fuel pressure,
and more. If you dont know what other things are going
on when looking at erratic hp graphs, its real hard
to pinpoint the actual reason. Sorry so long
The eddycurrent dyno is great test instrament not
just and accelerometer. Ralph
01-09-04, 08:37 AM
#41
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Originally posted by Xcessive
Also how do you make the typing fit across like everybody else? My computer skills need to be honed.
Ralph
Also how do you make the typing fit across like everybody else? My computer skills need to be honed.
Ralph
01-09-04, 10:29 AM
#42
Lives on the Forum
Tim,
Decided to go with HKS Twin Power ignition amp and harness. The Twin Power provides amplified spark to both leading and trailing plugs, rather than using capacitive spark to leading plugs only (Jacobs).
The HKS setup is more expensive, but it's a better product in my opinion.
Jason will need to fine tune on the dyno again.
This time, I will have 93 unleaded pump gas in the tank.
I'll post the dyno plot as soon as I get this upgrade done
I'm shooting for low 11 AFRs, so I'm hoping to be in the same league as you, Tim LOL
Decided to go with HKS Twin Power ignition amp and harness. The Twin Power provides amplified spark to both leading and trailing plugs, rather than using capacitive spark to leading plugs only (Jacobs).
The HKS setup is more expensive, but it's a better product in my opinion.
Jason will need to fine tune on the dyno again.
This time, I will have 93 unleaded pump gas in the tank.
I'll post the dyno plot as soon as I get this upgrade done
I'm shooting for low 11 AFRs, so I'm hoping to be in the same league as you, Tim LOL
01-09-04, 06:05 PM
#43
yeah, I have the twin power and when I had the M2 stage 3 ecu, the twin power added 8 rwhp pretty much across the rev range and 15 ft/lbs as well (peak of 19). It's a nice compact unit, unlike the jacobs rotary master brick you have to find a home for in a small engine bay area. I think you'll enjoy it.
I'll sign up for that event as well if your going to be able to make it.
Tim
I'll sign up for that event as well if your going to be able to make it.
Tim
01-10-04, 09:35 PM
#45
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Personally I'd just run a MSD6a on the leading plugs, it wont burn up the coil like a Jacobs does. Running a amp on leading and trailing isnt really going to help you at the level your at (or really any where under 500rwhp. The leading burns the vast majority of the mixture and creates the vast majority of the power. The stock trailing is pleanty sufficient, putting a amp on it isnt really going to help you....except to help you spend an extra $350 over one MSD6a
STEPHEN
STEPHEN
01-11-04, 11:07 AM
#47
Yeah, I wondered why Stephen's ID is on that now...but that's still Jim's car in that thread. Stephen's running the 13B-rew with the BNR stage 3's. IF you run it like Stephen's talking about, I'm not sure if you'd tell a difference in HP (I know your butt dyno wouldn't) over the HKS unit...other than saving some money. What I don;t understand is when when Gorden M. buys and installs 3 msd's or whatever amp he's using instead of buying the HKS unit. The only other advantage is it has a harness and is smaller and easier to mount (hks unit) over just on msd or crane.
Tim
Tim
01-11-04, 11:13 AM
#48
BUT with that said, I'd still get an HKS unit due to the fact I have yet to see anyone produce the HP (i know how you feel about dynos Stephen ) from just one MSD unit compared to the HKS unit like I did. I do think it helps to amp up the trailing just a little if only for better burn and better fuel economy.
Has anyone ever seen the HP improvements from just a crane or MSD units installations on a dyno?
Tim
) from just one MSD unit compared to the HKS unit like I did. I do think it helps to amp up the trailing just a little if only for better burn and better fuel economy. Has anyone ever seen the HP improvements from just a crane or MSD units installations on a dyno?
Tim
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