midnight_7

heres what just hit me 5 mins ago.

is there a way to modify/improve a 13b n/a wankel to produce, close to, or the same HP as the current renesis from the engine aspect? i know we can tweak the exhaust systems in our cars to free-up HP, but remaining completely smog legal, the ren. motor makes almost as much as an FD.....naturally aspirated.

i know they're both 13b's and i know the ports are somewhat bigger and certain things re-worked for better milage, power and reliability. but can those improvements be transfered over to a wankel?

reason:

im already thinking of my n/a streetport rebuild and was wondering if there are attributes to the wankel that can be made so i can get similar success with their engine in my future one.

Rotor13B

Methinks you need to read up on the renesis engine some more.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

the stock renesis motor does not make nearly as much power as the twin turbo FD setup. But to answer your original question; sure.

VietFC

that's a very blunt way of answer... simply... sure....
it'd be awesome if this forum just changed to yes/no answers. The world would be a better place.

gildardo

I guess you could use the side housingd of the renesis, but then againg what do I know.

Gil

pengarufoo

you won't be getting the same power with equivalent emissions unless you simply turn your engine into a renesis - side ports.

if you retain peripheral exhaust ports you will continue spewing HC's out the exhaust.

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

haha, don't they put down like 180-190 to the wheels? I guess what I meant was, do the typical N/A power mods, i.e. streetport, aftermarket ECU, exhaust, intake etc. and sure, 180 whp is not out of the question.

I guess a semi-n00b question gets a semi-n00b response, no offense.

BlaCkPlaGUE

Coulda sworn that I saw dyno sheets of the 6 port models doing 250 at the flywheel, just as advertised. If anything, it would be the shittier 4 port models that make 190 at the flywheel.

I think what gives the renesis its power, is its intake system. Its pretty friggen crazy, something like 6 stages for a very nice torque curve.

Rx7MPGUY84

uhhhhh.... theres no such thing as a Naturally aspirated FD 13b-rew.

BlaCkPlaGUE

uhhhhh..... not sure where you got that idea?

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

pass me some dat crazck mayn

RETed

You can't afford an RX-8 engine swap.

An RX-8 engine does NOT make the same power as the FD 13B-REW.
Since when the RX-8 engine makes 255bhp stock???


-Ted

foxman

wouldn't that be wankel (13b) to wankel (Renesis)

anyway 255 vs 238

siamiam

its really getting old having to tell people that.

for almost 14 year most of my car have been Turbocharged and after all these years ive found i like NAs alot better when it comes to driving especially alot of the curvy hilly roads in my area.

id like to have the available power and responce of a Renesis, i driven a couple of RX8s and FDs and wish i could have a Renesis in my FC

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

He said close to the same power, meaning close to the same HP as the FD's 13BREW. Read people... christ...

TitosToy

if i'm not mistaken the fd 255hp 13b-re was the 4-port tt and the rx8 238hp 13b renesis is a 6-port n/a both stock. i also thought the n/a fd's were 6-ports too as base models; but then again, there would be posts on how to swap fd's n/a to fc's right?? oh well...any thoughts?

VietFC

sorry buddy... FD's did not come in an N/A form. So all FD's were 4 port.

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

The Renesis' power is STILL over rated at 238hp. Based on what people are dynoing at the real number is ~215-220hp. It's possible to get close to that: https://www.rx7club.com/time-slips-dyno-128/na-6-port-177-rwhp-363329/ Some people have gotten fairly close to that with stock port S5s.

jreynish

iTrader: (2)

a 13b-rew, give me one and give me a header and give me some piping and toss the intercooler and turbocharger I will make it n/a. No big deal there. you guy's are making a lot of fuss over little things,
Either way there are ways to get lots more power out of our engines same as the renesis, however, we will not be getting the same efficient emissions as the Renesis does.
as for the renesis dynoing at 215-220 is the wheel hp... if so than I would say the renesis's power is underrated.

BlaCkPlaGUE

What the hell, I could have SWORN that the 13B-REW was a 6 port engine!

coldfire

iTrader: (1)

i can't believe how quickly a thread fills up with irrelevant or incorrect statements. this is why i am discouraged now to post questions that i want accurate technical answers on. it always seems those who DO know the information i am seeking are too busy correcting others who don't know as much...
as for this subject, this is all i have to say because this thread doesn't deserve it:

- renesis vs rew: comparing power outputs between the 2 engines is stupid. although they have a few similar characteristics, they have very different power deliveries and torque curves. as for dyno numbers from the rx-8, it seems to be very difficult to dyno these cars. there are a lot of ECU interventions that get in the way, and it seems very sensitive.
but looking at real world performance figures and given the weight of the car, power output is not too far from what Mazda states

- the new side port design in the renesis has a few advantages, not just reducing hc emissions through a cleaner burn. THEY ARE THE PRIMARY REASON THE RENESIS GENERATES MORE POWER. they help eliminate exhaust and intake port overlap, and allow the actual port designs to be optimized. the rotors are also chamfered to take advantage of intake port timing. the exhaust ports were never really a restriction on the previous NA 13bs, it was the intake.

- the renesis won international engine of the year not only because it was an improvement on the rotary engine, but also a tremendous leap in manufacturing tech. at Mazda's factory, the technique for casting rotors are now greatly better balanced (creating rotors from the centre instead of from one corner), they are using a new, state of the art CNC process, and all tolerances have been greatly tightened.

midnight_7

my comparison of the REN. to the REW is to state how advanced this engine is since it produces almost the same amount of naturally aspirated HP as a twin turbo motor. it was by no means a comparison of whats a better motor.

that hp figure in itself is what prompted me to ask in this forum of the possiblities of extracting some of the RE's technology and adopting it to a wankel in the hopes of similar success.

RETed

Go drive an FD.
Go drive an RX-8.
Do they FEEL like "close to the same power"???


-Ted

midnight_7

i was refering to HP numbers. 238 is pretty close to 255 numerically. that with the fact its n/a.

i use this for the sake of asking what i can do to achieve such similar success with my 13b without going turbo.

ill re-phrase my question then, is it possible to rebuild a 13b to with the same technological philosophies/characteristics as a renesis to achieve close to the same output as an RX-8?

RETed

[QUOTE=midnight_7]i was refering to HP numbers. 238 is pretty close to 255 numerically. that with the fact its n/a.[QUOTE]
That's the problem with hp numbers...a lot of it is bullshit.
Just mentioned a *300hp* PP motor, and all the NA people go gah-gah cause of the extremely high power numbers normally aspirated.
Then you're going to get people asking if they can throw a PP motor into their FC with stock ECU.
That **** just doesn't fly.
A 300hp PP 13B doesn't make power until after 6kRPM.
Under 6kRPM, it's a dog.
A *STOCK* 6-port 13B will beat a 300hp PP motor from idle to 6kRPM or even to 7kRPM.
So what does the horsepower number mean?
Jack and ****.


Maybe you should READ more and ask LESS.
The magical number for a 6-port FC NA 13B is 200hp at the wheels.
We just haven't seen absolute proof of one.
There have been people who have gotten very close!
174 and 177 has been done by members on this forum.
That's some very respectible numbers, as this is over 200bhp at the flywheel!
This means it make more power than a stock Turbo II 13BT.
That makes it a solid 14-second 1/4-mile car with the chance it can crack a 13-second run.

Now, I dunno what kinda power you're looking for or your power goals, but that's about as powerful and quick you can get your 13B NA to go without getting really radical on the porting.

Maybe you want to tell us what you're shooting for?


NO.
The RX-8 runs a three-stage intake manifold.
Now, the S5 FC NA 13B runs VDI, which is technically a 2-stage intake system.
But how do you add the 3rd stage?
The RX-8 was built with some very sophisticated control systems, and unless you're a proficient EE and ME, it is just not practical to do so.

A bridgeport + stand-alone will hit those target numbers pretty easily, and I'd recommend going that route.
It will probably be the cheapest option in terms of power per dollar spent if you're going to start out with a FC NA 13B engine.



-Ted