slvr7

iTrader: (1)

After a loooong rebuild, a gentle break-in period, and some wide band tuning, I finally got my car onto a dynojet yesterday - and WOW, I'm happy with the results! - I estimate this NA motor is making 200 - 210 HP! Best chart is attached to this post, but unfortunately every run was plagued with breakup of the rpm input to the dyno computer at high rpms. So although this chart shows 177 rwhp @ 7,250, I'm sure it would have nudged 180 with a clean pull beyond 7,500. And the fat, flat torque curve make it very drivable - the result I think of the VDI setup.

Here are the details on the motor:
'86 6-port, rebuilt this summer, with a mild 'mazdatrix' style streetport & smoothing of runners
S5 VDI swap with rpm switch controlling 6 ports & VDI
Port runners & manifolds matched to gaskets
New rotor housings, plus all new rotor seals, springs
DIY 'Pineapple' aux port sleeves, diffuser in exhaust sleeve ground out
Cone intake, MSD 6A, RB Header to hollow cat, Trust dual 60mm cat back, RB alum flywheel, SAFC II with AFR's tweaked to 13:1 ish.

I built the motor (first time rebuilding) paying attention to maintaining good compression [tight clearance on side seal to corner seal, new housings], keeping air velocity high by smoothing runners and straightening / back cutting transitions, and making small changes to port timing [primary now closes 50*ATDC, secondary added only 2* to closing, aux. timing not touched].
My previous best numbers were 145 at the wheels without the VDI, rebuild, or sleeves. Now, I just have to be careful with my 'glass' FB tranny!

nonameo

well... damn I'd like to see what numbers you'd make with kahren's custom manifold, except you do seem like you've kept 99% of your low end. that curve is FLAT!

edit: actually you seem to have GAINED low end.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Good numbers. That will be a quick n/a in 1st and 2nd gear if its lightened...

koukifc3s

iTrader: (3)

thats some great #s you have!!

vietxdragon

just curious, wat is VDI?

nonameo

variable dynamic intake, its a little valve that lets the pressure waves bounce between the intake runners.

vietxdragon

oic, hmmm 180hp n/a , not bad, but thats weak compared to a honda/acura. are u able to produce more power without boosting ur 13b? cuz im curious and new. i have a 86 rx7 n/a and i wanna make it a drifter but not go turbo cuz i heard it would be better just swapping in a T2 engine and tranny. but n/a is more reliable. but can u squeeze out anymore power ?

CronoMasamune

Keep in mind, veitxdragon, he is talking about wheel horsepower. Put a 160hp b16 Honda engine on a dyno and your not gonna pull 160hp, most likely somewhere around 120-130 WHP.

vietxdragon

yeah true, but a b20/vtec or a h22, will put over 200hp at the wheels,
and i know my stock seven should outrun a Civic Si

RETed

Built H22 or stock H22 internals?
Race gas or pump gas?
I'd like to see proof of a stock H22 put down more than 200 at the wheels with 91-93 octange pump gas.


-Ted

vietxdragon

Lightly Modded H22, Stockcompression but aftermarket cams, and its on pump gas

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

i recently tuned a type r h22 motor it waws completely stock, swappedinto teh integra and put dow 195 at wheels. with mods it will do over 200 without a problem.

yes you can squaze out much more from a NA 13b. i put down same power but on stock ports, completly stock motor. i will get a new tune and i am hopign to see 190+ at wheels. a streetport will easily put you over 200 if properly done and tuned, including the intake manifold and exhaust.

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

i just looked at yoru chart again, why didnt you rev higher just to see where the power falls off. i am guessign this is all s4 internals? also what gear was that pull in, just curious.

vietxdragon

Thats a chart for a h22, and sorry for jacking your thread

RETed

Yeah, the cams would bump the power up easily.

We did a bone stock H22 that dyno'd 175 at the wheels on the stock ECU.
We slapped on a Haltech E6K, and we did 195 at the wheels.
Now, keep in mind, this is with all stock internals and on pump gas.

I find it hard to believe a totally stock H22 with produce over 200 at the wheels on the stock ECU.



-Ted

casio

this is also comparing 86-91 motors (13B) versus 92-2004 (b18c1, b18c5, h22a1/4, h23a1/4, f20, f22). wanna compare some of these to the renesis? the b18c5 is rated at 195 and had, i believe, an 11:1 compression ratio. the h22s (5th gen prelude) were rated at about 205 (h23s at 160). only the s2000 has a number to compare with the renesis. but to be fair, i believe there's more n/a potential to be found in the s2000 engine. i'm not too sure.
honestly, i hate these comparisons. i'd take a turbo rotary over a turbo honda engine. i would, however, like something with an sr20-t.

koukifc3s

iTrader: (3)

I dont think the rx-8 has broken 200rwhp yet...

casio

you know, you may be right (as far as factory specs on the dyno).
i was more making the point that the engines debated were very far off as far as years. there's variables in between. its hard, in my opinion, to debate engines so simply. max hp vs max hp. thats just silly. in this case, look at the years. the computers our cars run are not as complex as later honda computers. that in itself is a big variable. then there's the potential of an engine, its efficiency, its durability, and its driveability. et cetera.

i also wanted to point out that i left off the B18C (jdm type-r). i'm not sure if its compression ratio was 11:1 or if our B18C5 was 11:1 and there's was higher (i want to say the B18C5 was 10.8:1; i'm not doing any research now ). i also dont recall what their engine put out, though i don't believe it was higher than the H22's 205; close, though (203hp?).

von

Remember changing your cams on a piston engine is like porting a 13b. Knowing that Kahren's engine is completly stock he is making alot of power or around 40rwp with bolt ons. Most stock hondas wont get that much with a bolt on turbo. 200rwp is possible on stock ports with an N/A or so opeple are trying.

If your asking if 13b's can make more power without turbos then the answer is hell yah. You can streetport, bridgePort or Periphial port wich the most recorded was I think 350rwp 13b quite a few years back.

If you want to drift N/A is a cheap way to do it. I prefere you to get smaller gears. I drifted few times in the mountains and 4.1 gears are way to tall.

KiyoKix

Those are very good numbers man, I'm sure you could squeeze a bit more out of her once you fix the ignition problems. I'm not a big fan of these type of engine comparos...but I can say that the RX-8 HAS in fact put down more than 200whp actually...3 of them that I've seen. If you get the Best Motoring Video (Hot Version) with the RX-8 in it there are 4 cars tuned by Fujita Engineering, AutoEXE, Kei Office, and Yumekobo. The lowest powered car on the dynojet was 199.3 ps I can't remember the conversion off the top of my head right now but that's only a few units higher than whp (maybe 3-5), the other cars definately made 200 or better no matter how you slice it. Here are the rest of the numbers in case anyone wanted to know . Anyway can't wait to see what your motor will do when the ignition is fixed.


222.8ps @ 8978 Fujita Engineering
199.3ps @ 8580 AutoEXE
222.5ps @ 8873 Yumekobo
205.8ps @ 8874 Kei Office

KiyoKix

On a funny note out of all the cars in the video the one with the lowest peak power was the quickest in the 0-200m dash (9.900 sec) . It was also the best looking one if you ask me only thing I'd change would be the color (it's white, which looks great...but I would want it a darker color unless it was Rosso Corsa)

Kiyo

rs_1101

youve given me hope for the n/a. you ran 7500 rpm with the stock s4 computer>?

ImprezedRS

My 88 GXL is doing 162 hp and 127 torque

gsracer

type r h22?

Kahren

iTrader: (13)

yes the jdm accord euro R or typer in europe, had a diffrent tune of the h22 model engine