Thinking a/b Buick V6T in my '87 TII, need GNX7's help
07-18-02, 10:24 PM
#51
GN engine life span...... Hmmmm
Well I race with the local Buick GN club sometimes and there is a 304K mile GN with minor mods (adjustable wastegate, new plugs, wires, 18* performance street chip) that runs high 13's.
Another guy with a stock longblock and T-64E turbo, 3" downpipe, 50lb injectors, 22* 100 octane chip, large front mount intercooler and 70mm TB runs 11.70's@118.5mph and has 112K miles on his combo. The car has been running 12's or faster since 70K miles!
His car weighs 3700lbs so he is making over 500hp on a stock longblock (stock heads/cam) with bolt ons.
Buick GN engines are very critical about their tolerances (bearings, rings, thrust play) vs. the standard small block Chevy where basically loose or tight still works for a long time. The Buick GN when rebuilt need meticulous confirmation that the clearances are within factory specs etc. The stock Buick oiling system sucks and drilling out the crankshaft main area in the block with a larger hole aids in keeping the dyno juice flowing properly.
A rebuilt for performance GN engine lasts around 20-50K miles.... as the people that rebuild them are truly beating the living **** out of them. 600hp with a small TE-52 turbo is the norm with stock reciprocating assembly and a little head work and bigger cam. 700hp seems to be the limits of the block at this point in the game before you need to go to a Stage 2 (limited racing block from the mid 80's made by GM for Buick Motorsports which is now defunct INDY cars). The Stage 2 with good heads can make in excess of 1300hp (274ci 4.5i V6) repeatedly in twin turbo form.
RX-Heven- Dave Dave Dave..... My POS archaic 1970's based engine will still probably make more torque than your TE-66 20B when it is done..... maybe. The dog-ring gear box on the street is going to drive you friggin nuts.... but you are already halfway there like me so it should be fine....
Road (real) racing...... I'll agree with you there. 20 minutes of racing is better than 10 seconds at a time bro. That's why I have coilover setup and YOU to help me dial it in for the track. I have a sequential-like setup with my B&M ratchet MegaShifter!. Bang gears up and down.... kind of!
Dyre- you are so right about the straight 6 of the Supra being a drag only item.... Those 2 cylinders in front of the strut tower will drastically affect handling. Plus the design of the engine with the RX-7 style crossmember won't allow you to place it low enough for a good center of gravity. However the good virtues of the inline 6 allows for more main caps (vs. V8 or V6) which hold the crank in place better and pretty much stop crankshaft flex with high load/RPM and make for one hell of a stout combo as evidenced by the 2JZ-GTE being able to withstand T-70 turbos and NOS in stock form with mega boost levels!
GNX7
Well I race with the local Buick GN club sometimes and there is a 304K mile GN with minor mods (adjustable wastegate, new plugs, wires, 18* performance street chip) that runs high 13's.
Another guy with a stock longblock and T-64E turbo, 3" downpipe, 50lb injectors, 22* 100 octane chip, large front mount intercooler and 70mm TB runs 11.70's@118.5mph and has 112K miles on his combo. The car has been running 12's or faster since 70K miles!
His car weighs 3700lbs so he is making over 500hp on a stock longblock (stock heads/cam) with bolt ons.
Buick GN engines are very critical about their tolerances (bearings, rings, thrust play) vs. the standard small block Chevy where basically loose or tight still works for a long time. The Buick GN when rebuilt need meticulous confirmation that the clearances are within factory specs etc. The stock Buick oiling system sucks and drilling out the crankshaft main area in the block with a larger hole aids in keeping the dyno juice flowing properly.
A rebuilt for performance GN engine lasts around 20-50K miles.... as the people that rebuild them are truly beating the living **** out of them. 600hp with a small TE-52 turbo is the norm with stock reciprocating assembly and a little head work and bigger cam. 700hp seems to be the limits of the block at this point in the game before you need to go to a Stage 2 (limited racing block from the mid 80's made by GM for Buick Motorsports which is now defunct INDY cars). The Stage 2 with good heads can make in excess of 1300hp (274ci 4.5i V6) repeatedly in twin turbo form.
RX-Heven- Dave Dave Dave..... My POS archaic 1970's based engine will still probably make more torque than your TE-66 20B when it is done..... maybe. The dog-ring gear box on the street is going to drive you friggin nuts.... but you are already halfway there like me so it should be fine....
Road (real) racing...... I'll agree with you there. 20 minutes of racing is better than 10 seconds at a time bro. That's why I have coilover setup and YOU to help me dial it in for the track. I have a sequential-like setup with my B&M ratchet MegaShifter!. Bang gears up and down.... kind of!
Dyre- you are so right about the straight 6 of the Supra being a drag only item.... Those 2 cylinders in front of the strut tower will drastically affect handling. Plus the design of the engine with the RX-7 style crossmember won't allow you to place it low enough for a good center of gravity. However the good virtues of the inline 6 allows for more main caps (vs. V8 or V6) which hold the crank in place better and pretty much stop crankshaft flex with high load/RPM and make for one hell of a stout combo as evidenced by the 2JZ-GTE being able to withstand T-70 turbos and NOS in stock form with mega boost levels!
GNX7
07-19-02, 12:03 PM
#52
Quote by GNX7
"I have a sequential-like setup with my B&M ratchet MegaShifter!. Bang gears up and down.... kind of!"
Not even close to being the same thing. I would be interested to know how you would blip the throttle to downshift in an auto for that corner coming up. Can't be done. All I would see (from my rear-view mirror of course ) is tire smoke coming off the rear tires as you lock them up going into the corner.
Of course you know I will have to drive your car to tune the suspension
"I have a sequential-like setup with my B&M ratchet MegaShifter!. Bang gears up and down.... kind of!"
Not even close to being the same thing. I would be interested to know how you would blip the throttle to downshift in an auto for that corner coming up. Can't be done. All I would see (from my rear-view mirror of course ) is tire smoke coming off the rear tires as you lock them up going into the corner.
Of course you know I will have to drive your car to tune the suspension
07-21-02, 11:21 PM
#53
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Well, all those with "anti "hacking" the TII" attitudes may rest easy; '88 GXL super clean good interior and paint not running w/ title for $400 obo in the local auto trader. Sounds like perfect GNX7-2 candidate to me 
07-22-02, 12:18 AM
#54
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You ppl in those post who call this engine a POS, just lisent to this one lil fact about it, then make your deicision ( i dunno if this was stated already didn't read the whole too long, i lazy)
The Stock buck V-6 turbo out of uses one turbo and stock runs 15psi.
The Stock buck V-6 turbo out of uses one turbo and stock runs 15psi.
03-07-03, 06:50 AM
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15psi? As long as you are using good gas and the right amount of timing, much higher boost is possible.......
27psi on the stock turbo was fun. This motor will see about 10HP from each pound of boost (over 15psi). You do the math!
BTW - Anyone wants a Grand National drivetrain? Here is your chance!
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=161206
27psi on the stock turbo was fun. This motor will see about 10HP from each pound of boost (over 15psi). You do the math!
BTW - Anyone wants a Grand National drivetrain? Here is your chance!
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hreadid=161206
03-07-03, 07:00 AM
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Hey, more power is always better. Can you use the stock tranny with the V6? All of the V8 swaps I have seen use automatics. Remember, automatic transmissions were developed for WOMEN and the DISABLED back in the 40's and 50's. If you aren't a WOMAN or DISABLED you should never own one...
03-07-03, 07:58 AM
#57
I'll have a Coke!
I have a question. Why are you starting with a TII? There are so few to begin with out there, why make the original TII's even more rare? Why not sell it get a GXL or better yet a vert (you are probably going to need to swap the drivetrain on the TII anyways), and then do your swap?
You were talking about having a "bad-***" 1st gen too, are you planning on putting the 13bt in that?
Well i think you should use some other FC to do the swap and not a TII. Everyone knows there aren't enough TII's to go around and we all can't do engine swaps.
You were talking about having a "bad-***" 1st gen too, are you planning on putting the 13bt in that?
Well i think you should use some other FC to do the swap and not a TII. Everyone knows there aren't enough TII's to go around and we all can't do engine swaps.
03-07-03, 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by skyypilot
. Remember, automatic transmissions were developed for WOMEN and the DISABLED back in the 40's and 50's. If you aren't a WOMAN or DISABLED you should never own one...
. Remember, automatic transmissions were developed for WOMEN and the DISABLED back in the 40's and 50's. If you aren't a WOMAN or DISABLED you should never own one...
There is obviously A LOT you don't know.
04-30-03, 10:37 AM
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man the guys in second gen section are alot easier on piston swappers than in first gen section ...
back to work on my 1st gn turbo buick powered car
and reliability was qustioned...Im close to 700 hp at the crank in my ttype with stock crank rods and pistons a small cam and stock heads I ported myself and I beat on it all the time in my heavy azz ttype and motor keeps taking it
cant wait to put it in the 1st gen
back to work on my 1st gn turbo buick powered car
and reliability was qustioned...Im close to 700 hp at the crank in my ttype with stock crank rods and pistons a small cam and stock heads I ported myself and I beat on it all the time in my heavy azz ttype and motor keeps taking it
cant wait to put it in the 1st gen
04-30-03, 07:41 PM
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well....it all comes down to how much you beat on it and how much you take care of it. When you compare the GNX engine to the regular 231 ci engine, you havta keep in mond that GM 3.8s have been around for a couple decades plus. Used in the Bonneville still today, among other cars. The engine itself is a good engine. BUT--with the extra power, these cars have been beat to **** more times than not. Hell--in CT, the State Troopers used to run a dozen or so of them back in the late 80s.....you can bet your bacon that those cars were beat to snot. GM's 3.8, even NA has put out more power than Ford's did. I have a T-Bird SC, and that thing pulls sweet for a big car, but is nowhere near this fast as a GNX is....
Bottom Line--heavy foot=light wallet
Bottom Line--heavy foot=light wallet
05-19-03, 01:11 PM
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road race auto trans
If anyone thinks that an automatic trans can't be effective in a road racer do a search on Jim Hall's Can-Am racers of the late 60's early 70's. He absolutely dominated the class running an auto trans. And this was one of his secret weapons.
05-20-03, 10:00 PM
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Yea my father in law has an original hillborn injected ZL1 and modified TH400 from his fathers Can-am car in the late sixties at the shop. I dont think it is actually an automatic, I think it has been modified to full manual valve body and the torque convertor is also modified in some way. The combo has been in a crate since 1970.
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