0verb00st

I was recently hanging out with some of my drifting friends and we where all talking about our cars. They all had 240's (except for one m3). They all complimented how clean my fc was, but then asked me what I was planning on doing for more power. I told them about my plans to swap to a 13b-t and they said I might as well just buy two of them and keep one on hand for when the other one blows. They told me the best way to go would be an LS1 swap or an SR swap. WTF...

I think that these engines take away from the car and once the swap is made, it is no longer an rx-7. Yes I know the LS1 has gobs of torque and power and the fc is a good platform to put it in because of its handling capabilites. Yes I know the sr is an awsome engine with alot of potential.

I think that for how affordable the 13b-t is and the potential it has it is the best way to go.

I want some more opinions though. Can the people with either one of these swaps (Ls1, Ls7, Lt1 etc...) share how the swap worked for them and the other rotor heads keep me on track.

myersprostatus

iTrader: (2)

if you do either, i will come down personally and spit in your face.
they obviously have never had an rx7 and know nothing about them, if you take care of your car, it will run...

do the 13bt swap, i put one in and its from a different series. now that is somewhat a pain in the ***. but not that bad

if you want easy buy the same gen turbo 13b and you wont have to change the water pump omp all that good ****.

putting a v8 in an rx7 takes away from the whole concept of the car...
if you wanna put an ls1 in something get a camaro... the car it came out of, a big *** tank.

of course they would tell you to put an sr20 in your 7, they are all cheap asses and have 240's.

stick to a mans car the rx7, swap a 13bt in there take your cats off, and youll blow any sr20 away.

7s till we die. keep it locc, late
p.s. i take it your friends have a beanie baby or some **** hanging from the back of there "nismo" 240's. lol soooo jdm >.<

L-Spec

Yup, I'd have to agree. The RX-7 is a sports car, don't downgrade it to compare to a 240sx. If anything, aim higher.

0verb00st

do I smell a 3 rotor?

Im sticking with rotary for sure, just wanted to hear everyones opinions on the other swaps.

MidnightOwl

You should get two 13bt's and put them together. Just a thought...

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

seriously, i want to get a bug and put a rotary in that. ****, i hate the damned ricers all the time trying to sound smart and say that piston engines are better than rotaries.............in a rx7............still confuses me
"blah blah blah" ok, wheres your justification? tech? reason? benefits? ect.
normally shuts them up

peace

dial8

iTrader: (4)

Stick withe the 13bt, or really blow their socks off with an REW or 20B. V-8 in RX7 make my stomach hurt, and SR20s are super common in 240s, but are a pain to swap into RX7s of all generations. Ultimately the choice is yours, but you are a club member and you know how these things work(I hope), so you should know better than to trust the opinions of people who don't know how they work.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Fixxed

Eat-Pez

iTrader: (1)

The OP wants opinions from people who have experience with swaps and other types of motors.

I'm not here to start a debate or to be talked down to.

I know **** about rotaries as every RX7 I've ever owned has either not ran, or ran very badly.

This is the RX7Club.com, not the RotaryEnginesAreSoGreatThatMazdaBarelyUsesThem.com .

Again, I'm not here to start a debate, get flamed, or deal with misconceptions that so may rotary guys have about piston engines.

That said, you should really take a ride in a swapped car before you ask for opinions from biased strangers. LS1 RX7s are very common now and I could line you up a ride practically anywhere in the country.

The LS series engines are a great motors. It is, by far, the most technologically advanced producion V8 availible today. Many snobs view it as dinosaur era because it uses pushrods, but when GM produces a motor that is lighter, more economical (especially than a rotary), smaller in size, more powerful, more dependable, and more desirable than any other production V8 (pound for pound) in the world, who is really the fool? I've got a friend with a Lightning. It put down 375hp on the dyno. My last FC (heavily modified top end) put down 450hp and the engine is literally 1/3 the mass of the 5.4l DOHC supercharged turd in his truck. Seriously, I took measurements.

I've done at least 6 swaps. With a kit, it basically turns into a 350hp bolt on, w/ 450hp only being a cam, heads, & headers away. I can do the swap in 6 days if all the material is waiting on me. And then another few days to get the AC and PS working. If you've never done one, expect more like 6 weeks, expecially since you don't know exactly what parts to buy.

The swap will not effect your handling at all. Weight distribution sometimes gets BETTER after the swap. Remember that the LS is an aluminum engine. The only major part of the motor that is not is the crank, and it sits very low.

I went to an RX7 Steve Kan tuning session once. He liked my car, btw. Anyway, I was talking to one of the guys there with a turbo FC. In between pulls, he told me that he was putting down 375hp, and was hoping to get to 400hp by turning the boost up on the next pull. He said that he had about $10k in his motor and I asked him, how long would it last at 400hp? He looked me in the eye and said, "about 12,000 miles". And he was ok with it. He had come to terms with it.

I didn't have the heart to tell him that I had $8k in my entire FC (including the car, a paint job, wheels/tires, etc) and I put down 450hp and it's good for about 200,000 miles.

If you want to have a civilized conversation about it, PM me your # and I'll call you sometime.

Really, have you ever heard of someone taking their LS1 out of an RX7 to put the rotary back in?

magus2222

iTrader: (22)

ok, well, there is a reason that the rx series stands out among manufacturers as one of the most well known import car, either famous or infamous.
either way, there is also a reason that people take such pride in them, and not disgracing them with dime a dozen piston engines.
also, there is a reason the lemans banned the rotary, too powerful, too few moving parts (speculated).
if you want to do a ls swap, get a datsun Z, or something else that is common and not frowned upon. yes, i realize that these ls swap guys have gotten near perfect weight distrabution, but who cares honestly, if you walk up to a fc or fd, you expect to see this work of art of an engine bay, instead, you get an eye full of american engineering. i know 3 different people with the ls swap, and only 1 i approve of, and thats the 240z swapped with a ls2 putting down 600 hp in a car that weighs 2200 lbs.
seriously, just save this argument for everyone. not wanting a fight or a argument or w/e, then dont post threads like this. it will only result in alot of people getting butt hurt.
save a fd, swap a 240, its for the better

for serious, jeeeeez


peace

Hypertek

iTrader: (3)

a 240sx is just as competitive as an rx7, if not better..... more aftermarket support, double wishbone rear suspension, plenty of power (in thier native japan with sr20), parts interchange from the z and skylines. lets not forget these cars probably have a bigger fan community of owners then rx7s. Tho to the world, the 240sx was never idolized as a big time sports car.. having falling behind the 300zx , seldom people dont think much of them. And the image of kids in beat-*** s13s with street racer attitudes doesnt help either.

But im sure those guys you where talking about where talking out of thier ***.. lol
if thier car isnt fixed up or modified, then i would take wahtever they say with a grain of salt, unless they have a nice car to back up their talk experience.

heres my old s13 (I miss it, my first car, traded for a 190e 16v, then traded that to my current fc)


did everything myself, swapped the motor, suspension, wiring, everything.

People who believe so and so engine is the best.., would never know the potential of a rotary until they get thier hands on one... Its a totally different ball game.
All the things Ive learned about conventional engines, i had to like forget all that when it comes to the rotary!

SR20 is awesome! but for a rx7 i wouldnt imagine swapping out the rotary for a piston engine, the weight issue I could not stand.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

im in portland if you wanna check an ls1 FC out in person. (im assuming you're not too far away?)

phoenix7

how would you feel if you had your heart ripped out and replaced with a pig heart?

It's still a heart, it keeps you alive, but it's from a pig. If you can live with that then you can do the Sr20 swap or LS swap.

Rookie84

I don't understand the such hatred towards other engine swaps. LSX engine swap is a great way to have very reliable 400+whp NA power without upsetting the weight distribution. Plus it's relatively cheap and easy. Sure, rotary engine is great but the reliability is really a hit or miss. I currently have a big cam and my car is probalby putting down over 430whp easily judging from others with similar setups. I plan to set down to a smaller cam for better daily drivability, which will still get me about 420whp. If there ever is need for more power, simple 150 shot of Nitrous will provide plenty more power, enough to put me into 9s in 1/4 mile with drag radials.

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

Keep the rotary, we don't need any driftaz over at v8rx7forum who don't know how to use the search button or at least look for 30 seconds before posting a useless thread!! This topic is covered pretty much every week, you don't have to scroll far to find facts and opinions from both sides.

phoenix7

^^^ nobody wants them!

Eat-Pez

iTrader: (1)

Depends on the condition of your current heart. If you were born with an inherantly weak heart, if you've had human heart transplants before, or if you've got terminal heart disease, a pig's heart wouldn't be that bad.

But a pretty bad comparison, if you ask me. You're imlying that the LS and SR motors are inferior, but they've had ~100 years of R&D before the 13BT ever saw production, and another 20 years since the 13BT ended production. If the 13BT is so great, why doesn't Mazda put them in all of their cars? They don't even use them in the RX8s.

sa22see

When u change the motor from the car and use another power plant from another manufacture I think the car becomes a piece of ****.but thats my opinion.

How fast you can make the car is not the point but how fast u can make the car go with only 1308 cc that's the point...

phoenix7

I think it's the proper comparison.

I never mentioned anything about inferiority so I don't know whether that's just a personal issue with you or if others think that's what I'm trying to say.

As far ar the 13BT not being that great well, that's a pretty dumb argument and i'm not in the mood to dissect it and go off on a tangent.

Snyper

I agree. Swapping in a motor that makes torque, more power and is 50times more reliable does make the car a piece of ****. This will prolly spark another arguement but its all good, I like educating the dumb. I don't know how many posts on here are made about people blowing up rotaries, whether it be from not caring for them right or who knows what other EXCUSE you guys will come up with. Bottom line is the 13b motor is the weak link in the RX7. The car itself is amazing, handles top notch, and is beautiful...but is completely unreliable which is why they stopped importing them here. Swapping in a 20b will get you more power, but with that power comes alot more weight(ls1 will end up at around the same weight as a 13b), and also ontop of the weight, you still have to deal with reliability issues. I LOVE hearing them say, "who cares how long it will last, it will be fast till then". Thats just completely ridiculous. Also, you can say all you want about a 13 or 20b being faster than an LS1.Its complete bullshit. Motor to motor a 13b/20 doesnt stand a chance in hell, turbo for turbo- the same applies. There are people daily driving 800+hp turbo Ls1s around and actually putting miles on them. Show me one 800hp rotary thats daily driven and actually lasts.

Swapping an LS1 has absolutely no negative side effects(unless you consider torque a side effect) and corrects all of the RX7s downfalls. You guys can talk all the **** you want but what I said is FACT not fiction.

Theres no need to go off on a misguided tangent. Theres nothing you can say that will influence any real CAR guy who actually has a clue(not rotary head) that the 13b or any b is more reliable or a better design than the LS1.You just like every one else who talks **** about LS1 swaps really have no idea what your even talking about. Your guesses(which is what they are) are far from acurate.

Its funny how all of you who talk about them have never owned,built or driven one of these cars. 99% of the people who have LS1 swapped cars once owned a rotary and was tired of the car breaking down, I myself included. I can't tell you how many threads I see with people wanting to swap the rotary motor out as fast as possible because it just keeps breaking-whether it be, again, from unexperience or lack of care.(ls1s were made to beat on and keep going)

Go on LS1tech and show me ONE post where someone wants to swap an LS1 out for a rotary, or even show me one where someone has swapped out a 13b for an LS1 then swapped back---you wont find a single one, so until you do you should research a little more before typing words that just make you look like an idiot to the people who actually know whats going on.

Josh18_2k

iTrader: (3)

lets start swapping in hayabusa engines. they can make 500whp on pump gas at only 1300cc. and its much cheaper to do so..

Eat-Pez

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry, I think the OP wants to hear from people who actually have experience with these particular engine swaps.

DarkLikePoe

In this order:
1. Emissions
2. Fuel Economy
3. Serviceability
4. Perceived Reliability Issues

False. The Renesis is a 13B.

Don't forget that the 13B ran through the '85 FBs, all of the FCs, and all of the FDs - some of the most respected cars in the sports car/racing community. Since 2003, the 13B has appeared in the RX-8. This constitutes an impressive and globally unbroken 23-year-run, excluding the use of the 13B-RE in the JDM Cosmo.

Next, let's talk about the vaunted LS engines, which have been in production in many GM cars since 1997. However, the only truly respectable sports cars GM has shoehorned the LS into are the Corvette (GMs ONLY TRUE sportscar), the Camaro (an incredible pony car), the GTO (a fast couch), and the Pontiac and Holden versions of the latter two. The LS engine, as a series, is a workhorse motor, designed from the ground up to fit the bill for dozens of cars and trucks, MOST of them not sports cars. Here, in 2008, we've seen the LS engines run an impressive 11 years, and with each change, however minor, comes a new title. We're up to LS7, which is an impressive engine, and a FAR cry from the LS1.

In short, the 13B has enjoyed a longer period of R&D than the LS series as a whole, and fewer changes have been made to it. However, this is not to suggest that its development is somehow stunted; the 13B, as it appeared in the FB in 1985, produced 146hp in naturally aspirated form and 182hp in the first turbo-charged version in 1986. By the end of the FD3S's run, in which power output had been at its highest, it's 13B produced 276hp, which represents a 189% gain in developed power, whereas the LS7 produces 505hp, a 165% gain over the older LS1 technology.

What is your definition of R&D? What is your definition of a "good" engine?

Lastly, it should be clear that you attacking the 13BT is like me picking on the early LS1s. "Piston slap is the hallmark of a bad design, and it cripples these motors, so therefore all LS engines are crap." This sentiment is obviously bullshit, and by extension, so is yours.

To the OP, you'll find that in educating yourself in the responsible ways to modify a 13B, you'll elevate yourself above those who only think on the cheap and easy (proponents of the SR swap) and those who refuse to be pioneers in a new way to make power (proponents of the LS swaps). The SR is a fine motor, as are those in the LS series. It really depends on the kind of owner YOU are.

XxMerlinxX

iTrader: (2)

Be honest, you've never had any sort of conversation like that. You expect us to believe that you've questioned LS1 owners about why they did the swap, and they couldn't come up with anything? Lol, oh sure, I bet that happens a lot. Don't make up situations to try and justify your argument, just makes you look stupid.

BogusFile

Use logic when making your decisions... don't base your choice on the advice of people who treat there cars like deities. It's an internal combustion engine damnit!