Otaku

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if Toyota is going to release their sports car as well and whether or not they'll decide to release the new Supra yet.

I figure since they're bringing back the RX7, they already brought back the skyline, I just wonder what Toyota will do on this competition.

GSLSE-YA

I can't wait for the next rx7. One thing is for sure, they're not going to make it slower than the last outgoing Japanese model Rx7 (spirit R) which had 280hp and weighed 2800lbs. I would expect at least a 10:1 weight/power ratio.

I'm a NA fan, so I think they should offer two NA engines, one that makes around 250hp and sells under 30k, and the other making 300-350hp that sells for 35k. It needs to be combined with a 6speed manual and a weight of 2800lbs or less. This car would take away much of the market segment that is the 370Z, STI, EVO, RX8.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

I'm not so sure that would be the case even with a growing rotary public fan base. The RX-7 lost the car sales segment war against the supra and 300zx at the time stateside. Now with the 370Z, STi and EVO, there are more choices that I feel most of the population will flock to.

GSLSE-YA

I think the last rx7 lost the car sales segment war mainly because the turbo rotary was the most unreliable out of all the competitors at the time, not only that but they didn't offer a nonturbo 3rd gen. The 300z, and supra offered turbo and nonturbo. The corvette and NSX were also competitors at the time.

If you look at successful sales years of rx7's, mazda had offered turbo and nonturbo models, or no turbo at all. Not only that but they were both reasonably priced. The 3rd gen sold for between $32k-$39k from 93-95 and only had 255hp. That would almost be equivalent to selling the car for almost $45k in todays dollars, 15-18years later.

Don't get me wrong, I love the looks of the 3rd gen. It was bitchin' for it's time, but I think they should have offered a nonturbo that would sell for less. The 3rd gen probably would have lasted longer in the states if that were the case.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

You have a sound argument, I would have to agree. It was definitely unreliable or at least mechanics who worked on them were which gave it a bad rap. I remember when my neighbor got a CYM and that thing was a yellow lemon! One thing after another failed on that thing and he finally traded it in for a supra. Go figure, wish I knew what I know now and had picked it up from him.

Good post man.

GSLSE-YA

I love Mazda, but sometimes I wonder what they're thinking. I think they've learned their lesson from the 3rd gen, but I'm not sure about the new Nagare design theme. It's grown on me slightly, and I heard it's suppose to be more aerodynamically efficient. (low Cd)

evot23

iTrader: (17)

How they translate Nagare to real world vehicles will be interesting. I wasn't too keen on it either until I saw the Furai. There is no arguing that the car shows flow very well. Interesting that a dutch guy would design something that looks soooo Japanese.

GSLSE-YA

This is the way I figure it. This also depends on port size/timing and a bunch of other stuff. You may want to check my math.

1600cc/1308cc = 1.223 (larger displacement)
1.223 x 232hp (RX8 hp) = 284hp

Direct injection combined with the new design is probably worth an extra 5% hp over that figure.
284 x 1.05 = 298hp
300hp should well be within the range for the new 16x, even if it's NA.

Mx5/Rx8's great chassis & suspension, reliable 300hp w/6speed, 2700-2800lbs empty weight, updated 3rd gen type looks.
I would pay $35k for that combo.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

I'm not sure what lesson Mazda learned from the FD RX-7 experience. When the RX-8 launched, there were lots of complaints about reliability again. There was the negative PR about about Mazda overestimating the horsepower. Plus you had all the old familiar rotary quirks and drawbacks (poor gas mileage, significant oil consumption in a world where nobody checks their oil anymore, potential for flooding if shut off before being warmed up, etc.). Until Mazda finds a way to make the rotary more fuel efficient, it's going to be a tough sell to mainstream American car buyers in the lower mid-priced segment.

The FD was not really overpriced considering its competition of the day. Also, 255 horsepower was plenty in 1993. The FD kept up nicely with the 300ZX and Toyota Supra and was priced competitively with them. Mazda was just trying to position the car a little higher in the marketplace than the FC and buyers didn't line up. Part of this was the negative reputation of the rotary, part was simply that the economy took a downturn right when all these Japanese premium sports cars hit the market. By 1996, they were all gone.

RotaryRevn

All i know is that if they offer an NA motor in the realm of 300-350hp, I would be tempted to take my series 4 turbo motor out of my first gen and drop one of those in with the stock fi........haha I agree, it would be awesome if they offered an NA and a turbo version.

RotaryRevn

Updated 3rd gen type looks would be awesome.

GSLSE-YA

Most people buying a 2 seat 2 door sports car aren't too concerned with gas mileage. When Mazda came out with the 4 door 4 seat rx8, it became more of a factor.

Rotary quirks are one thing, having your whole motor blow up after 50-90k miles (as was the case on most 3rd gens) in a different issue. They also had some issues with engine fires before the recall. The 3rd gen only had a 3 year run in the states, the rx8 is on its 7th year, and we're in the worst recession since the 30's.

So what you're saying is, you would currently buy a 255hp rotary powered car that weighed 2800lbs with a 5 speed tranny for between 40-45k? The car did perform well, but I still think it was priced to high and there wasn't a nonturbo offering.

NAVILES16V

iTrader: (2)

In 2000, when the RX8 was far from a certainty, I promised myself if Mazda came out with a new Rotary sports car that I could afford, I would buy it. The RX8 came out in 2003, I could afford and I bought it. If Mazda comes out with a new RX7 type sports car with the performace I expect(280hp+, sub 2900lbs) and less than $35k, I will buy it. I love my 1st gen, and plan on making real fast, but nothing beats that showroom new sports car feeling. I am eagerly awaiting the return of the 7(or a reasonable facsimile).

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

No, I wasn't saying that. I'm just saying that the performance of the FD was impressive in 1993, not disappointing. At the time, it was one of the faster cars you could buy. For example it had very comparable acceleration and handling to the 270 horsepower Acura NSX that cost almost twice as much. Corvettes had about 300 horsepower in 1993 and cost about the same, but lacked the refinement of the FD. I'm just saying it's unfair to look at the output of the 13B-REW and compare it with engines that are available today. You can buy a Honda Odyssey with 260 horsepower today; a 260 horsepower minivan would have seemed ridiculous in 1993. I really don't think the FD's performance was a weakness.

Maybe a non-turbo FD would have helped sales, but it still would have been quite expensive. Even if Mazda was able to bring it to market for $5000 less than the twin turbo, it still would have been a lot more money than a Miata of the time, with not a lot more horsepower. Remember that when the Miata came out in 1990, RX-7 sales really tanked because the NA RX-7 was in competition for sales with the cheaper and more economical Miata.

Agreed Mazda would have to offer a much more powerful engine in 2010 if they want to charge FD-type money. By charging RX-8-type money, even if it's a two-seater, Mazda will be selling to a different market segment. People buying a car in the affordable segment do consider gas mileage when making a purchase.

I do agree that making the new RX-whatever an NA is a pretty good idea to reduce the complexity and cost. Unless Mazda decides instead to do an all-out, cost-no-object halo car to compete with the likes of the GT-R. Might make sense, because I just don't see huge numbers of people embracing the rotary for use in everyday transportation.

daviddeep

iTrader: (4)

That is a good point. Using longevity as a yardstick, the RX-8 has been a bigger success than the FD. Of course at the time, Mazda claimed that the new OBD-II regulations for the 1996 model yemade it financially not viable to retool the computer and electronics of the FD to keep selling it in the U.S. Had there been something similar that came out three years into the product run of the RX-8, Mazda may have pulled it off the market too.

RotaryRevn

Best idea yet, make it a turbo 3 rotor with 16x technology

Supernaut

iTrader: (83)

An N/A 2-rotor Rx7 wouldn't have faired well. It would been severely underpowered. I don't think mazda would have made it cheap enough to make it worth it either. Mazda touted the FD as an all out pure sports car. If there was a turd version, no one would buy it. The FD lost sales for many different reasons but its not because they did not offer a cheaper load out for it.

GSLSE-YA

I disagree, a cheaper model would have meant more sales, probably would have sold for around 26-28k. The people who wanted the all out performance would have still bought the turbo. They probably could have made a NA model that would have had about 180hp and weighed 2700-2750lbs. That's still descent performance, the GTUs with the same weight and only 160hp ran 15.9sec quarter. I think it would have ran low 15's in the quarter mile. Mazda may have sold enough to make it worth their while to adjust for OBDII emisions.

GSLSE-YA

This wouldn't be a bad idea either, as long as mazda is just using it as a flagship car. They wouldn't make much money on it though, and only a few in the rotary community would beable to afford it... unfortunately. I don't know if Mazda is a large enough company to do this idea.

RotaryRevn

Yeah true, it would kinda suck for the majority of the mazda community who want another rotary but wouldnt be able to afford that type of car. Hopefully, they will just offer the rx-7 with a 16x turbo or na 28k-35k, then maybe a special 3 rotor version down the line that would go for more $$$.

You figure if they have a good running sucessful 16x, why would they not at least try a 3 rotor protoype at the factory and see how it goes

stinksause

iTrader: (2)

^ We'll do a group buy for 1 car

teddyrx2

iTrader: (33)

the only angle or angles you need to know is that its NOT a damn 4 door hahahah...