My goal here is to promote a practical discussion on the next RX-7 and, if that goes well, maybe we can all send a letter to Mazda. Please limit the discussion to user preferences, and don't engineer the car(s) for Mazda. Broad engineering goals are okay, though, since those are user preferences.

Facts:
Mazda has a ~$45,000 RX-7 on the drawing board. They want to bring back the RX-7 and its "legendary" name, but are holding for economic reasons: It is hard to make as much money on expensive cars, so they need to be sure.

Mazda has been showing off the Kabura concept car with good responses (google "Kabura"). It is a sub-compact, beautiful and practical 3 seater hard-top aimed at youth. It would be both cheaper and lighter than the Miata, yet with the same drive-train. Its low cost comes from re-using only pre-existing parts.

Rumor:
Mazda could fit a rotary in the Kabura. The goal would a practical rotary car, somewhat like the RX-3.

My Proposal: Offer 2 RX-7's
1. Put a rotary in the Kabura and call it the RX-7. Detune it to get the horsepower down to the 190HP that the Miata parts will like. Without the micro-balancing and such it'll be cheaper, and by running rich and/or lowering compression (or who-knows-what) it could run on regular gas. The lighter weight will give it at least 5mpg city over the RX-8, even before detuning: 3000/2300 * 18 = 23.4 (I assumed the rotary makes the Kabura 100lbs. lighter).

2. Keep the same platform, body and suspension so it will look the same; still call it the RX-7. Tighten the suspension, perhaps, and replace everything under the hood with the fancy stuff from the $45,000 RX-7. Call it the "GT" or "Turbo" or whatever sounds nice.

 

tell mazda to give up. all theyre going to do is create something that cant compare to its predecessors and **** off a lot of people. they got lucky with the rx8. they cant have an economical car and a rotary sports car. the end

*all above statements are my opinion, if you dont agree, boo hoo*

 

I agree, when the 8 came out, i was confused whether it was a sports car or a sedan.
Mazda neutered its performance by making it NA and no special porting or ITBs etc
sure the renesis claims its 240hp but sure doesn't act like one.

Besides, we don't need to breed a new wave of ricers using rotary engines and calling it unreliable.

 

I think in both cases Mazda should spend (and charge) the extra $ to make it reliabile. Such would be good for the rotary's reputation as well. It's rumored even that the $45,000 RX-7 might be N/A, with a 1.5L rotary.

Oh, and the RX-8 is a pretty good performer, though not stellar. It got 1st in its class at Le Mans with nothing more than a tightening of the suspension. And its reliability is a little above average, with some fuel and ignition complaints (flooding I bet).

The Miata is one of the most reliable cars in existence, sports car or not. Using mostly Miata parts would help insure reliability.

The question is not, "What will the RX-7 be?" but rather "What do you want the RX-7 to be?" or do you not want any new high performance rotary sports car at all?

 

If Mazda wants to make a kickass RX7-like sports car just get the 2.3 turbo duratech from the Mazdaspeed 6 and put it in RX8 chassis with a different body. There, all the mileage, reliability, and sellability theyd ever need. But, well, Im sure a lot of people here wouldnt be too happy with that.

Now, if they really want a rotary sports car to go compete with 350Zs and the corvette, etc, theyd need to work on that 'bigger 13b' thats longer along the dimension of the e-shaft so the chambers are bigger and have a smaller volume/surface area ratio for higher efficiency, higher mpg, and well, more displacement and thus torque and power, and a well sized single turbo with a VNT and a RELIABLE WAY TO CONTROL BOOST.

Well, that and a ECM that isnt retarded and cuts spark, not fuel.

Also, direct injection would go a LONG way if theyd figure out how to put some depressions into the bathrubs for stratified charge...

 

I think if they are planning on making another rx-7 then it should be a turboed sports car with lots of potential, It doesn't nessicarily have to make lots of power out of the box but something that you could start from and non of this ecnomical but sportie stuff. it's either a sports car or not, but if its not going to be a sports car then don't call it an rx7.

 

The issue is they have to compete with the 350z, Corvette, the new camaro if it comes out, S2K, etc get decent gas mileage, and be reliable, without spending too much.

The other issue is Mazda has to actually sell them for profit! Rotary enthusiasts dont keep the numbers out of the red, the average buyer does. You have to attract the average joe to it, not just the diehards who'd buy anything with a wankel.

 

eh?

 

Rx vehicles are rotary powered end of story.


I know one thing, if Mazda plans on building a $45,000 Rx7, it better have a turbo charged 3 rotor for most to even consider paying that much for it. That's almost 20k more than a base Rx8 which is in fact a good, more practical sports car. There's some heavy competition out their. Mazda needs to step it up. A 3 rotor Renesis with a smallish Gt-35R turbo would spool extremely fast for low end and provide enough boost for about 400rwhp. If they keep the weight under 2,800 lbs, the Rx7 would once again be the super car bargain it once was, much cheaper, and possibly out perform the new Z06 and the new Skyline.

 

Am I posting in the wrong section or have people simply lost interest/hope in another RX-7?

 

You're not in the "wrong" section per se, but most folks here are more interested in pre-RX-7 rotaries. Some folks post about JC Cosmos or RX-8s, but a vast majority of the traffic here is for 70-79 rotaries (R100, RX-2, RX-3, RX-4, RX-5, REPU) and swaps into little british cars, old RWD Toyotas and other oddities.

If it's fuel injected from the factory, there's not a lot of interest in here.

 

Fact: People will not pay $45k for a Mazda anything unless it is downright amazing.

Fact: The RX-8 base model with a manual transmission is a pretty decent deal at a sales price around $26k for what it is; however, its styling is rather polarizing.

What I would want from a new RX-7:

• A Nonturbo Base Model
• Weight of 2800 lbs or less
• 1/4 Mile Time of 14.0 sec or less
• True Two Seater with Generous Luggage Space
• A 6 Speed Transmission
• A Non-Ugly Body Design
• Head Room
• 17x8 Lightweight Wheels

If Mazda built a nonturbo RX-7 that could compete more closely with the 350Z's acceleration and a reasonably low cost, then it would sell. I just have my doubts that a turbo rotary can really be a good daily driver for the average person.

The gearing can be greatly modified from their past offerings. Who needs 1st gear to redline at 40 mph anyway? Why not use a 4.8 rear end and gears 1-5 to give more of a road race setup. Don't just stick in an extra gear between two others. Adjust all the gears and then offer 6th gear as a true overdrive.

A lot of Mazda's designs are looking weird these days. If they want to stick with their current body design theme, then a new RX should look more like the 3 or MX-5 than the RX-8. If the 8 wasn't so exaggerated looking I probably would have bought one for my daily driver. Instead I decided to keep my 2nd gen and get a Subaru for winters and people hauling. (Yes, I know Subarus are a bit weird looking too.)

Surely aftermarket turbo kits would be created or a Mazdaspeed turbo 7 could be offered to give a power potential in the 350+ HP range. I also agree that if Mazda was willing to increase the displacement to 1.5 L, then a nonturbo RX-7 would be even more appealing. Heck, wasn't a 3 rotor originally put into the 2nd gen body for testing?

I personally doubt that any of these things will happen, so playing around with my low cost 2nd gen is fine for me. Why should I pay $25k-$35k for a new sports car when mine does just fine for my personal enjoyment?

My gut tells me that two kinds of people would be interested in a new 7. One group would want a low cost, reliable sports car that doesn't have to be the fastest car around. The other group wants a super car and doesn't care as much about reliability. I just don't think Mazda can financially support the super car group. Lower cost, very fun cars are their niche. Why not stick with it?

 

What I would like to see in the new rx7

I would like to see it more light like around 2400 lbs(with interior)

I would love to see a nonturbo basemodel

if they put the renesis in it and still get a 50/50 weight

I would be the first person to apply for loans to buy one.


it would be cool if they had the base and then they had two different turbo models. One for the hardcore wankelmen that is up for all sorts of modding out, and a reliable non modable out turbo version.

But I believe that most of my blabbing is a pipe dream.


edit:hahah I noticed that my english sucks and I had to reword some stuff

 

They need to just start making an updated FB. Keep the weight the same or lower, build it really simple and clean without heated seats and crap like that, and shorten the overhangs and make it a little less ugly. I could care less what engine is in it, I would want the cheapest option that makes about 150hp and weights the least.

And of course, only call it an RX if it has a rotary, the only people who would enjoy the nostalgia of the RX name would also be the ones refusing to buy it if it was missnamed.

Matt

*I may have some spelling errors. Oh well.

 

Like other people said, I don't think people want 45K RX7 unless it looks or performs like Ferrari or other super cars. 4th gen 7 should go one stage up in terms of performace and value.

 

A few of you have hopes of a car that would most likely compete with mazda's own rx8, so if mazda did come out with a 4th gen rx7 i would expect it to be a 40K+ vehicle, targeted at a different consumer bracket that the rx8.

You can probably expect it not to have the exact same reni motor....im hoping for a 3 rotor side exhaust port or a reni with a supercharger...

We shall see.

 

UMMM, Where's the fast, fun, and affordable option???? Don't say it can't be done, that was the whole idea behind the 1st gen. And even though it may not be "fast" by today's standards, back then it was. As others have stated, the RX-8 is affordable and hits most of what 7 owners would want. Now just make a 2 door and save some weight. The Kabura is a good start. Make it happen Mazda!!!!! I'll buy one.

Oh, and who would choose cheap and slow? Go buy a Kia!

And I can't even comprehend someone checking they wouldn't buy another RX-7??!!!!

 

The trend for these car companies is to redo there old and great cars. but so far most have been worse then the older one. The 300zx could be bought in a twin turbo model with about 300hp, much faster then the 350z.
if they make a new RX-7 they should make it better then the older RX-7 but still not make it too different. the RX-8 is the 350z's competition so they need to step it up to the new skyline or camaro's level. if its $45k then it better be able to beat other $45k cars in performance and reliability to actually sell well. I think they will ruin the new RX-7.
plus it will make our cars worth less.
the only way i would get it is if it was a 3 rotor turbo and it looks like a RX-7.
They should update the fd body and the motor and make it a small production car.

Matt

 

EDIT: CHANGE "Slow & Cheap" TO "Cheap & Fast But Not As Fast"

There. I was afraid I confused everyone in the beginning. Now I know I did.

The question could also be worded: "1st gen-ish, 3rd gen-ish, or both?"
And no, I'm not saying the 1st gen is slow. The Kabura, even sans rotary as exhibited, would out perform the Miata (same power, lower weight). And its price competition? The Toyota Yawris! Maybe they won't make it that cheap, especially given the performance, but that's the market they're trying to target. And that price target isn't exceedingly far off, given the hard-top's decreased hunger for weight-saving aluminum and the design's re-use of existing parts. It would also allow them to roll out the design in no time flat.

What would you say to reposting this thread in all 3 generations of the forums asking:
A. Very cheap & fast like a 1st gen
B. Cheap, fast & more practical than a 2nd gen
C. Expensive and faster like a 3rd gen
D. Both A & C available under the same name and looks
E. Both B & C available under the same name and looks
F. I don't want another RX-7

 

the truth is that there really isnt a mazda anymore...ford owns mazda. and just like all the new "come backs" they suck in my oppinion, except for the new gto. has anyone seen the layout of the new supra?? it sucks! with that said im willing to bet they will try...fail...lose alot of money and the rx-7's name will go to shame.

 

Both.

I'm getting to the age where getting one of those cheaper affordable cars just isn't something I'd do anymore. I suppose I'm not in the target market for something like that -- look at the way Scions' are marketed, it's so embarrassing. Why do both then? This would obviously be the higher selling, easier to market car, and if there were a cheap RWD sports car that'd compete against the RSX/TC/Si range of cars, I think it'd be an instant hit, and would sell like hotcakes. Name this the RX-3.

Why do a high end one? While the RX-8 is great, (I want one, waiting for kouki update or Mazdaspeed) it isn't really that special. The average person doesn't think much of it, and certainly they consider it inferior to many other makes. Mazda needs a halo car that can perform substantially better than the others, in order to change the minds of the masses. Name this the RX-7.

Then, would I buy one? Maybe.. but I have a SA, FC, and FD, so it makes no sense for me to buy another two seater, so it's an RX-8 for me next.

Unless of course, there is an RX-9 in the pipeline, a JC Cosmo replacement would fit me better, I think.

 

im thinkin, why not both a cheap rwd car and a flagship vehicle?

the higher end with the almighty 3rotor, and the poor man's car, with a reni.
go ***** out with the 3rotor and badge it an rx7
keep the rx8, make a second gen of it, and make it cheaper. Like civic si cheap. mazda wins.

 

Leave perfection alone.

If they offer 2 types for the rx7, they have already in itself ruined the rx7 name.

You cant be cheap and compete, especially in this day in age of technology. The competition out there is too extreme. They will have to come up with a bulletproof rotary capable of making close to 300-350hp stock without the use for turbo. Or somehow make a fuel saving, emission friendly turbo rotary.

If they have 45k, thats not gonna be good enough. IMHO.

You put a half *** car out there and call it the rx7, prepare to fail and ruin its legacy.

They should just make another preliminary rotary sports car and DONT call it the rx7. Just to see what the intitial reaction will be. Then if all is good, come out with the big bang and bring back the RX-7.

 

I would suggest that Mazda 'coupe-ify' the MX5 chassis (shouldn't be hard, there's supposed to be a prototype running around already like this one http://www.triplezoom.com/gallery/al...0Coupe/006.jpg) and stick the NA Renesis motor in it. Restyle the nose to set it apart from the MX5, and there you have it. No reason that one couldn't come in around $30K, since all the development on both chassis and engine are already done.

I worked for a Mazda dealer when the RX8 first came out; yeah some cars flooded, the ECU was reflashed to fix that. Other than that, remarkably reliable.

 

why arent rotaries given more displacement?? a 2 rotors that are just larger. the gain in weight would be made up for in power.