Well I did not think thats what I was going to get from you Tweak haha but thats ok.

"rotary engine is severely over rated on this forum" WHAT! NO WAY! haha Yes the rotary engine is not the best engine in the world but, once you fall in love with somthing you will defend it so but ya people can go a little crazy about it.

But hey this what I am looking to do just building something for the fun of it and makeing the car and building it up is all part of the fun for me doing a little body, interior its all for fun right now, Then I am going drive it the crap out of it! Now the car is my DD so it needs to be reliable but needs to be fast when I want it to be fast.

I am looking for a good staring point that i can just have fun with and a little bit differnt.

Thanks for you time
Zane

 

Sorry to bring you down, but honestly the rotary has nothing going for it. It really isn't specifically good at anything anymore. When you take a step back, clear your mind of all the hype and bs, just focus on the facts, the rotary is a bad engine.

Compared to the engine you despise for no other reason than .... just because, the rotary engine:

has horrid gas millage for it's output, size, and weight,

has a extremely short lifespan,

because of the lack of displacement, the engine requires an upgraded turbo (with all the supporting modification) AND higher RPM to make any reasonable power. It is a common phrase that the engine loves to rev, when in fact, it HAS to use the higher RPM multiplier (and turbo) to even match the output of a stock ls1. (HP = RPM x Torque / 5252)

it has been shown time a time again, that the rotary engine, with oil cooler, turbo, intercooler, etc.., doesn't have a weight saving advantage over any of the modern aluminum piston engines.

our engine's are supposed to rev out forever, when in fact, our redline is the same, or even under those of modern day engines. (A simple prelude v-tech for example, they wrap out further than ours)

once modified, ported, the addition of a large single with the required lag from no bottom end torque, (just to reach the stock output of an LS1 for example) the car becomes much less enjoyable to drive, and more of an annoying drive.

inferior MPG
inferior emissions
inferior power to weight and size
inferior life span
not common, hard to find and expensive parts.... I could go on ...

anyways, I just want you to know, you are choosing an inferior engine, and making your life more difficult, just for the sake of being different. If that is ok with you, great! I just wanted you to know.

With that being said, keep your chin up. The rotary road is a long, expensive, unforgiving, trial of doom. If I have found out one thing, is that, no one has a clue what is going on, and those that do, don't share. There is never going to be a magical port that fixes all the rotary's issues. If you daily drive a high performance rotary, you are going to have to include it as an expense in your monthly finances. There are going to be problems, that you flat out, have to open your wallet and sprinkle 100 and 20 dollar bills all over your engine to fix. I honestly hope that you get what you are looking for, and I will do what I can to help you with any question and concerns, I just wanted you to know, it's 3 to 4 times harder than you could even imagine.

(On a side note, you want to be different, what is more different than a piston engine, in a rotary stock vehicle??? Other than the car being better... )

 

"The rotary road is a long, expensive, unforgiving, trial of doom" haha best way I have see it put in a long time.

Ok so I get its inferior in most ways but I am still just doing this for fun, and I love the sound and feel of it. I got a Vert so I had something fun to drive yet somthing I had a lot to work with by lighting, engine, body ect... and just having fun with a car.

Ok so I give you $5000 and say get me the best rotary engine to start from (best stock seals ect...), what would you go for... RENESIS and go for the new and maybe more parts around? (haha ya right parts ready and simpult to get that will be the day) But I have been wanting to do the REN for a long time now. Or go 20b not have to do much work on the engine to get it to the vary low bar of HP I want right now... Go TII or RE engine and spend the rest on mods? But I kind of look at it this way my car is from 91' its old... I dont expect it to keep up with new cars, I am just keeping my car in focus of the era it was made. yes make up grades but not go over the top... well to much over the top.

Thanks Tweak for taking your time and talking
Zane

 

$5K will buy you a 20B and then you get to add $15K to get a running car (or more, depending on your "bling" coefficient).
A first tier rebuild (new rotor housings) will eat that $5K up also (done by someone else with a respectable reputation). You can do it yourself, but you have to go through the learning curve ( tweak, are you on engine number 10?). Two or three home builts = > cash outlay than one professional rebuild.
Woundup7 used to just buy JDM engines and manage them with a power fc and a hybrid turbo, the car went through 3 motors (i think) but he was on the road and making +/- 300 hp for about $1K /motor (after all the mods to his car). I think he considered the motor as an expendable asset, kind of like a turbo or brake pads.
There are a bunch of ways to go, and anyone that has worked on these cars toward a goal will tell you that you might as well multiply your $ estimate by 2X and the time frame by 3.
The wisest post here stated that you need to pick something that you really want to do, otherwise you will end up with too many projects and too little $/time/desire... ask me how i know, lol

epic fail:

 

You're my hero! hahahahaha

 

ahaha Jenkin you're the man!

 

That T2 is fresh! no epic fail there lol throw some tail lights and trim on it and your good to go

 

Glassman - I am not sure you just want to spend 5k on just your engine or if that is your engine budget for the 300-350rwhp goal. If that is just the engine, then you could go 20b, but like jenkens says, plan to spend your child's tuition on the install and getting it running. First, I need to ask you, have you driven a 300 rwhp car? A 13b CAN make 400-500 rwhp, without going crazy, just water injection, tune, and a boost. I consider a 20b pretty much a waste or time and money, when thinking anything under 600 rwhp. I ended up with around 350 rwhp on my last build, and without my sticky 255 NT05 rears, first, second, and part of third were useless at WOT. Just spinning your tires gets old fast...

If 5k if for your whole build, 300-350 is the goal, and you are doing it just for fun, grab a currently running s4 or s5 motor, crack her open and hope your housings and internals are in good shape. If not you can either try another rotary scratch ticket. Don't be afraid to boost a 6 port NA, I have rocked 3 or 4 NA-Ts now, and they are just the same, the ports close super late, everything works the same. If you are offered an engine for 300$ that is running, has great compression, doesn't smoke or anything, snag it up, open it up, make everything perfect, and continue on to engine management, and boost. You could also buy new housings, but that would be a last resort being $500+.

Next, grab a standalone such as a e6k, or e8/e11. Very VERY easy to install, and the price is dropping on these units because of the release of the new platinum series. Wire it up, while you are waiting to find a deal on a turbo and possibly manifold. There is NO REASON to get a super $600+ custom manifold for a 350rwhp build. The "ebay" ssautochrome crap, has improved greatly in quality. I was looking at the difference between my friend rob's new style ebay manifold vs. my old style, and his is much better quality, but I have had zero problems with mine still. Why should 4 bent tubes and 3 flanges be the most expensive part in your build? O.o

Next, the turbo. Seriously, don't worry about this much. Grab anything between stage 3 hybrid, to a PT67, they will all give you the power you want, with only a slight maybe 500 rpm spool difference. The size of the hot side will net the biggest difference, and I have yet to see any of my turbos choke out with my .84 and .81, no reason to go larger at all for that power range. So, be looking for the hybrids, larger T04Bs, 60-1/T04s, 61-1, Gt35s, T04R, etc. Don't spend any extra money on ball bearing, but if you have a choice of water cooled, and oil lubed, try to snag that.

Grab a new fuel pump, some 1680 secondary injectors, a FPR would be a good idea, a decent front mount inter coooler, a simple nice upgraded clutch such as the spec stage 2 or 2+ (VERY smooth engagement, you don't need a crazy racing 3 puck, 350 rwhp at 7000 rpm is only (350 = 7000 x TQ / 5252) 262 TQ.) and an upgraded radiator (if you don't already have one.)

Build it up, throw on some nice tires, start it up, and find out the turbo is blown, or you fried your haltech, or you installed your needle bearings wrong and have to redo everything in the front cover for 300$ lol. Be happy that you didn't go crazy buying expensive things. You came out perfectly even after all the unforeseen issues, at $5000.

After thought, if you are rocking an NA car right now you will HAVE to switch out the complete NA transmission and rear end for turbo units.

There isn't anything that special about the RE, REW, or REN engine, they all suck in the same amount of air, ignite it, and use that to push the rotors, that push the eshaft.... one isn't going to net you an extra 30 or 50 hp at 300-350rwhp, just because of larger runners, or zero overlap. In a boosted rotary application, the boost is everything, it overcomes any restrictions of the port sizes, or small runners, of basically everything. Your power will almost fully be reflected in the boost level and accuracy of tune. If you are doing it just to be different, than ok, be that person, but you will be creating a lot of extra frustration and spending a lot of money and time, doing a fake "upgrade" to a "different" motor that truly isn't different or even needed for those power levels.

I know what you are feeling right now. You want someone to tell you exactly what to do, what to buy, because you are worried about making a mistake and making your car suck. I have a lot of people that have came to me, asking me the same question, 20 times, in different forms just to give them the confidence to purchase the item and move on with their build. When in fact for example, getting a T04B, or T04E, or gt35, or 60-1, or pt67, at boost levels of 10-13 psi, are all basically going to do the same exact thing. Just wait for the good deals on the things you want to get, and work on getting the car driving good. Or just drop in a stock ls1, don't worry about the turbo, standalone, blah blah blah, and be even more happy. (lol, had to say it.)

 

Dang jenkins, I won't be be able to make it, my girlfriends sister is having an engagement party that day. Are we having a Central Washington thingy this year? Am I invited? lol

 

no.
(jk)
i offered casa de rx7 graveyard to C for the CWR picnic/drive/show and shine, but outside of saying it is a good idea, he has not picked a date, to my knowledge. shiny new car project, new dad makes for days that pass rapidly! outside of offering a place, i am not into the work that it takes to "throw" an event together. And I give mad props to anyone who has the stones to plan one..

are you drifting at the speedway the 12th?
(sorry for off topic)

 

Nope, with me starting my new job Tuesday, everything is getting pushed back. :/ I kinda need to find shelter in Seattle lol. I am used to having more down time with my engines, than up, so it's no big deal. Rob and I did get my rotors sparkling yesterday though!

Sorry for off topic also.

 

Jeez Tweak just cuz you went to college doesn't mean you need to write an essay for every response

And regarding the airflow, the intake manifolds actually do make a difference with the airflow and will change your response and hp numbers. Just ask the guys who have upgraded to the REW UIM over the S4 or S5 manifolds. It does outperform those. And the RE manifold is a better design and gives better flow over the REW. Less restriction for the airflow IS a good thing, even with boost it does make a difference in response and power. Everything else you said I agree with.

Just try shorthand next time

 

Yes, it makes a difference, but not enough to care about. (especially not enough to switch engines for) Again, a slightly better tune, or 1 more psi, hotter or colder day, a lot of things can make up for those differences in power. The question is, is it really worth all the time and money for 5 hp? For some people it is, some people spend $700 on an NA exhaust... blows my mind.

Here is a quick example



If you click on this link you will see that all the variation of turbos and psi on each of these cars and they all are about the same. Tune, how generous the dyno is, spark plug freshness (lol), will all make bigger changes than RE manifold and such. :/ It's all give and take, not worth worrying about. That is all I'm saying. Gaining 10 hp at 350, is like .... 3% ... You are not going to feel a difference at 350-360, but there is a bigger difference percentage wise at 100-110.

http://www.catenet.net/graph.php?car...1&SUBMIT=GRAPH

 

I'm not talking about an entire engine swap, just manifold swap, yes it requires adapter plates and such, but it's a good upgrade, is it necessary, no not for 350whp

 

*hugs* lol. Good stuff. After comparing dynos for like years, I realized that they were all basically the same. lol That is when I relaxed and just built the engine.

 

Every time you talk about turbos you say people that spend 700 on NA exhaust lol its more repetitive than relevant.. You've got more knowledge than I do, just saying if its not your MO then why not leave it be

 

I don't understand what you are trying to say. I'm not sure there is a complete sentence in that post. I gave my opinion on the subject, the exhaust comment was an example. If you don't like it, don't read it. I am attempting to help someone get successful results for their project as efficiently as possible. I'm sorry if you think it is repetitive, next time I will try to be more entertaining. This thread of for noobs that need peoples opinions on what would be the best thing to do on their next investment/engine install. There are tons of ways to do things, if you want to go buy a magic gold plated tube, great, you are in America, I'm glad you are financially able to do so, I hope you are happy with it. But it is America, and I can say that my opinion is, you wasted a lot of money that could have been spent elsewhere to get better results. Sorry if it hurts your feelings. Get over it.

I'm sitting here, spending the money to rebuild my RE again, sporting an e11v2, going for 400 rwhp.... completely contradicting almost everything I have said. The difference is, that I have been a rotard, realized it after getting WAY to carried away, and am trying to stop people from making the same mistake. I used to think the rotary engine was amazing, defending it at all costs, thinking about 20Bs, running 10s, how it will all be cheap if I do it myself, blah blah blah.... I was blinded by rotard. If my repetitive posts help one person be happier and more successful with their projects, it was worth it.

 

Tweak I appreciate you taking the time and making such a full layout and expressing your thoughts.

“start it up, and find out the turbo is blown, or you fried your haltech, or you installed your needle bearings wrong and have to redo everything in the front cover for 300$ lol”
I am guessing you have knowledge with something like this happening to you haha.

I do know about having to swap out the transmission and rear end for the stronger TII’s

I think I under stand now that by looking for a better base to work from, its just useless cuz when you look at it, its all still just a 13b when you get down to it. You preach from the Bible of Tune, and I get it that your tune is the absolute most important part of your car. So from what I get… even from a simple $1500 JDM TII swap, and then take the rest of the $3500 put it in to it I could make my 350 hp with out sacrificing to much of my reliability? Sad to say I have been bit by the rotard bug and it has to take its course.

Jenkin that is no epic fail haha any shot you would part with some manual doors from one of them? Jk Good luck with all of them.

Zane

 

Damn tweak I didnt think there was anybody but me who thought all the same **** about the rotary. Ive just made to move to go to an ls2, you should scrap that RE and start sourcing some real parts.

Dont get me wrong though, I love the rotaries, I am just done with them and want to move onto a new challange....And get some torque...

 

I dont get it there are alot of other cars you can have for torque and can drop LS1/2 what ever you want in. so why do you have to do it to a 7!?!? Sorry am still in the early stages of my rotardedness... I just dont get it you could do it to any other car and it be fine.

 

because rx7's handle well? who wants to drive a camaro... not me

 

Because so many people have wanted to keep their upgraded chassis, and get rid of the inferior engine, that a whole 3rd party sub-market has been created. (The need is so high it is even thriving.) Why not have a good chassis, with a good engine? Who says you can't have your cake and then blow it up with torque and raw power too?

On a side note, yes that is your rotardness speaking. The rx7 isn't special, it wasn't specifically designed for the rotary engine in some extra terrestrial way. The rotary engine doesn't do anything special except suck. You could put a rotary engine into a corvette and it would be a HUGE downgrade. The chassis of an rx7 is just that, a chassis, nothing special, it's not like if you there is a huge mystical power boost, that if you have an rx7 with a rotary engine, you get a bonus 2.4 times power multiplier for having a small pair. It was designed light to try and make up for the stock engines sad power output. This isn't poker. You have the engine, you have the chassis, you have the rear end, you have the tires, a cars performance is more like a chain than poker. In poker you can have two good things out of 5 ( A A 2 3 9), and possibly have a decent hand, but in a chain, your performance is only going to be good as the weakest link. If you transmission or clutch is going out, you could have a 1000 hp engine, you are not going anywhere fast. You could have an amazing chassis, tires, drivetrain, but have a sucky unreliable engine, and you are still not going anywhere fast. I guess it's what you do, if you drive in stop and go traffic all day.... doesn't matter, you could have shitty everything and be just fine. You sound like you want to have as much fun as possible... having 4x as much down time as up with the rotary engine ... isn't fun.

 

anything that anyone suggests here has been done. if you want one of kind rx7, go 26B in your vert, i never seen that done anywhere by anyone...... well, except me HAHAHAH, jk

 

haha you wish you had a 26b in your vert! :p That would make it SEXY AS HELL though... well, more than it is now.

 

not sexy yet, i will be done with bodywork this weekend, I WILL SHOW YOU SEXY ! MUJAHAHAHUJAJAJA