nirvash

so this is my question:

why are rotary engines so hard to find people to work on them? and why cant more people work on them themselves?
because of the rotary's simplicity in comparison to piston engines (basically 3 moving parts inside a rotary engine as appose to the 50/60/70 plus in piston engines) most mechanics, or people with mechanical background be able to work or easily learn how to work on these engines?

also wouldnt it be easier to learn the ins and outs, as well and the rebuilding and so on of these rotary engines?

there must be something i'm overlooking or not getting, shouldnt they be way easier to work on?

if anyone could enlighten me i would appreciate it

thanks

farberio

iTrader: (7)

In my opinion, most people are afraid of them because they aren't piston engines. And since piston engines are just what they know that's all they care about.

20Bforme

depending on the area in which you live... it can be either really easy or damn near impossible to find a shop who is well versed in the wankel.

nirvash

well, one of the main things is i'd like to learn to work on the engine by myself, when i get my FD, some time early next year, i'l keep the running engine in the car, but want to get a second import engine (can get them for relatively cheap here) and strip it down, rebuild it, and just generally learn more about it?

what you guys think? good idea, bad idea?

20Bforme

sounds like a good idea to me.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Rotary engines in general are not hard to work on. In most cases, it's the stuff "around" the engine that needs fixing and not the engine itself. The reason more mechanics don't know what to do with them as that there are fewer rotary powered cars on the road than piston engines. They'll see only a small handful of rotary engines if they are lucky at a shop. Any knowledge they may gain will be lost by the time another rotary makes it to the shop. This is why specialty shops work well as they focus on specific areas. This does not only exist for rotaries, there are a lot shops which won't touch more expensive cars (i.e. your casual mechanic is probably not going to do much with a Ferrari) because they may not be familiar with their systems.


Most RX7 owners do. However, there is a line. Working on the car yourself costs time and money. It cost money as you need a place to do the work (i.e. a house or garage space) which depending on locale some people don't have; and time which some people don't have do to other more important commitments (i.e. family, work, etc). You also need the tools, which also cost money. You can get by with basic hand tools for small jobs, but after that you are going to need a much better collection of tools to get more complicated jobs done. I have quite the tool collection now, but I'd hate to add up how much money I've spent in that area over the years.

Time, is the other one. When you don't know what you are doing, it takes you a LOT longer to accomplish a task. Typically, at least twice as long if not longer in some cases depending on the task. For the FD, most people who aren't familiar with working on car, it takes them about 4-6 hours the first time they remove the stock twin turbos. For a seasoned pro, it would be 2 hours or less (depending on how stock the car is).

For those reasons, some people opt to have shops take on tasks for them (if they have one nearby which can do good work).

There are tons of resources out there for those that want to do more work on their own. Here's a video about rebuilding rotary engines:

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/overhaul_video.htm

ksu-chewie

iTrader: (14)

I bought my first FD almost 4 months ago now. I've never worked on rotaries before, but have worked on my fair share of piston engines, n/a or boosted. From what I've expereinced so far, as long as you can keep from getting frustrated you'll be ok. Once you get frustrated and "force" something, you're asking for trouble. I'm a very visual person, so whenever I'm doing something on the car I will have my laptop nearby to find pictures/illustrations to help me along.

Having the right tool also helps....
I've seen his garage and I thought I had a good collection of tools. I was put to shame...
Luckily he is a 15 minute drive if I need help and can't do it myself. Try to find another rotary enthusiast nearby and learn as much as you can from them. I've probably asked Mahjik the same question 3 times just to make sure I am headed down the right path.

nirvash

thanks everyone, i really appreciate the help.

its put my mind more at ease to know that i will be able to work on the engine myself, i know quite abit in theory, i just need to get my hands on one now and learn first hand
and that they arnt as "intimidating" and "scary" as some people think.

i definitly have space, and a fair amount of tools, but i'm sur ethat my collection will build along the way and over the years. ive mostly always had engine work on my cars done externaly (not by me) but ive decided that that must stop and its due time for me to learn myself. there's also a shortage of rotaray specialists around me, so hopefully in a couple years i can be of some use.

@doofy, like you i am also very visual, will be building up my rx7 factory maual and so on collection to aid my work (actually its quite essential, not really aiding) as well as always having my laptop around.
also when working on cars patience is deffinitly a virtue, as well as not forcing anything.

one thing ive heard though is that rotary's are more sensitive to tolerences then piston engines, can someone elaborate on this?

also, what is the current going price for a good fd 13b rebuild kit? and what sort of tools would be a good starting point?(probly have alot of them already, would just like to know)

thanks again guys

nirvash

another quik question, if an engine needed a serious rebuild, would the atkins master rebuild kit contain all you needed for the rebuild?

http://atkinsrotary.com/store/catalo...t-p-16897.html

also, would a stock rebuilt (with atkins) 13b with stock ports, and supporting bolt on mods be good for say 400hp at the fly?(sorry i'm sure this would have been asked before, just couldnt find it)

thanks

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Start by buying and watching one of the rebuild videos.


Stock turbos?

nirvash

sorry mahjik, should have been more specific, i'm talking about the engine "internals", just wanted to know if a good condition (rebuild) 13b with std ports, and everything internally std, with the right turbo upgrade, fueling, ecu/tune and other supporting mods will be able to take around 400hp reliably, or would i have to have a ported motor or any other internal upgrades?

mabe it would be better to ask, what power reliably can a std 13b take (regarding the engine internals)?

also, is there a rebuild video you could suggest?

lastly, i know the sequential turbo system is quite over-engineered and complicated, are there any other particularly complicated systems or parts regarding the 13b?

sorry, i know the questions go on and on and on....

aprreciate your help

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you can make 400BHP with stock internals and the appropriate turbo.

Yes, the one I linked back a few posts.

I think that's up to interpretation. I find the sequential operation quite straight forward as compared to other systems in the car. However, most of that is probably because I've spent a fair amount time over the years doing troubleshooting in that area.

nirvash

Mahjik, youve been such a great help, really really appreciate it, i know i always ask so many questions, and i'm glad to see there are people who have the patience and knowledge to answer them

one last question (i promise), you say you can make 400bhp with std internals on a 13b with the right turbo setup etc, but would you say its safe/reliable to run it at this sort of power?

thanks so much

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Safe has more to do with your tuning rather than what apex seals you are using.

thejallenator

iTrader: (14)

going back to you asking about what tools are needed to do a rebuild. i think all you really need is a 10,12,17, half inch drive ratchet would be best, and a big 2 1/8? socket i think to get the flywheel off.