Trailing 2 timing way off...
06-10-12, 04:49 PM
#52
So you have a fuel cut switch? The fuel pump normally will not turn on w/key to on unless the fuel check connector is jumpered or the AFM flap is open or the engine is running. Under any other conditions it should not be on. So you need to figure what's going on here.
06-11-12, 10:38 AM
#54
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And I was told by someone else that the pump doesn't kick on til the key is in the start position. Which is is it? On or start? That's why I wired it to a switch so I know that it's on or off
06-11-12, 12:57 PM
#57
considering it starts with starting fluid it does not sounds like a flooding issue but the reverse. the pump or injectors are not firing without assistance. if the pump is in fact pushing 40psi while cranking then you can move on to injectors and the trigger circuit, aka crank angle sensor and AFM.
next question is, does it run after priming with starting fluid on its own or does it only run while spraying starting fluid continuously? the latter tells us the injectors are not firing at all or you may possibly have one stuck closed and it is running on 1 rotor after firing.
next question is, does it run after priming with starting fluid on its own or does it only run while spraying starting fluid continuously? the latter tells us the injectors are not firing at all or you may possibly have one stuck closed and it is running on 1 rotor after firing.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 06-11-12 at 12:59 PM.
06-11-12, 04:05 PM
#58
OP said it will continue to run after using starter fluid and keep a 800 rpm idle. That makes me think fuel, air and spark are being metered well enough.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
06-11-12, 04:28 PM
#59
OP said it will continue to run after using starter fluid and keep a 800 rpm idle. That makes me think fuel, air and spark are being metered well enough.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
06-11-12, 04:30 PM
#60
OP said it will continue to run after using starter fluid and keep a 800 rpm idle. That makes me think fuel, air and spark are being metered well enough.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
Plus it's not self evident as to whether the fuel cut switch is wired or working properly.
06-11-12, 07:59 PM
#61
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
OP said it will continue to run after using starter fluid and keep a 800 rpm idle. That makes me think fuel, air and spark are being metered well enough.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
AFAIK, the only thing that changes during cranking is the amount of fuel being added. It ignores the AFM and uses a fixed cranking map as long as the key is in 'start'.
Can you get the car to start if you play with the throttle while cranking?
Your throttle body/plates may be out of adjustment and allowing too much/not enough air during cranking. Or you have a vacuum leak requiring more fuel (in the form of starter fluid) to get started. Kinda hard to tell from here.
06-11-12, 08:04 PM
#63
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
His Water Thermosensor reading as read at the ECU is way out of spec which creates a situation where the ECU uses a default setting that makes the ECU think the engine is warm, thus less fuel is used upon a cold start. This would help to explain some of the cold start problems, but not necessarily the warm start scenario.
06-11-12, 10:15 PM
#65
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have 2 ecu's both n332 87 t2 ecu's. One is rtek stage 1.7 other is stock. Both are good and I only know cause I have a buddy of mine with an 87 t2 that I tried both ecu's in his car and both are good.
06-11-12, 10:17 PM
#66
Did you place the fuel cut switch in the Blue wire coming from the Circuit Opening Relay. It is important that the wire in the top row, far left position has voltage w/key to start at the Circuit Opening Relay. That is w/key to start. If it does not then the relay will not power the fuel pump w/key to start and thus the pump will not turn on w/key to start and the engine therefore does not receive fuel, which would explain why the car does not start on its own. This relay has two aspects. One is to provide voltage to the pump w/key to start while the other is to provide power to the pump w/key to on. These are two separate and distinct aspects.
06-11-12, 11:32 PM
#67
Did you place the fuel cut switch in the Blue wire coming from the Circuit Opening Relay. It is important that the wire in the top row, far left position has voltage w/key to start at the Circuit Opening Relay. That is w/key to start. If it does not then the relay will not power the fuel pump w/key to start and thus the pump will not turn on w/key to start and the engine therefore does not receive fuel, which would explain why the car does not start on its own. This relay has two aspects. One is to provide voltage to the pump w/key to start while the other is to provide power to the pump w/key to on. These are two separate and distinct aspects.
06-12-12, 12:05 AM
#68
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Did you place the fuel cut switch in the Blue wire coming from the Circuit Opening Relay. It is important that the wire in the top row, far left position has voltage w/key to start at the Circuit Opening Relay. That is w/key to start. If it does not then the relay will not power the fuel pump w/key to start and thus the pump will not turn on w/key to start and the engine therefore does not receive fuel, which would explain why the car does not start on its own. This relay has two aspects. One is to provide voltage to the pump w/key to start while the other is to provide power to the pump w/key to on. These are two separate and distinct aspects.
06-12-12, 12:14 AM
#69
I'm gonna look at this better. I really did it half assed... I pulled the plug at the pump , ran a wire from the positive on the battery testing which wire in the plug gave it power, and then from there I plugged it back in and ran a switch to that power wire at the pump with an inline fuse. But I know when the switch is turned on the pump is turned on I can hear it turn on. That's why I wired the pump to a switch so that I know that it's on. So doesn't this pump wired to an on/off switch rule this theory out???
06-12-12, 12:14 AM
#70
It won't start if I play with the throttle either. But when I spray it to start it I have to also pump the throttle to start it. I noticed when I drive it when I put the pedal to the midway point where I can feel the secondary's it sputters a bit. How would I put the throttle body to stock specs?
What exactly is your setup?
S5 turbo engine: USDM or JDM?
What harness? And is it modded at all?
What injector resistance and do you still have the s4 resistor pack?
What AFM and pressure sensor are you using with the N332 ecu?
06-12-12, 12:29 AM
#71
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The normal method for a fuel cut switch is to wire it inline on the Blue wire from the Circuit Opening Relay. You might want to remove your example and just check the relay based on how it is supposed to work. As noted, the Blue wire at the relay has power w/key to start. And when the car starts the same Blue wire would have voltage when the engine is running. And you don't have the fuel check connector jumpered do you?
06-12-12, 12:34 AM
#72
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the page from the FSM on throttle body adjustment. Doesn't sound like that is your issue though, so you may want to hold off on it.
What exactly is your setup?
S5 turbo engine: USDM or JDM?
What harness? And is it modded at all?
What injector resistance and do you still have the s4 resistor pack?
ecu?
What exactly is your setup?
S5 turbo engine: USDM or JDM?
What harness? And is it modded at all?
What injector resistance and do you still have the s4 resistor pack?
ecu?
The 88 n/a harness not Sure of mods.
Rc 550 primary and rc 750 secondary
No resistor pack there's a AEM 10 channel box for the low impedance injectors
The AFM is 87 t2 n332. Pressure sensor... I don't even know what that is... I know I'm very noob...
06-12-12, 12:42 AM
#73
When I first got the car I didnt hear the pump prime itself. Which I now find out that's the way it is. So I wired it to work. So I gotta check the voltages at that relay cause it never started on its own for me before or after the switch. And honestly... I dont know where the fuel check connector is to know if it's jumped... Maybe they jumped it in the swap??? I don't know...
The Boost/Pressure Sensor is bolted to the passenger strut tower and has a small vacuum hose running to it. It is rectangular and has one plug w/four wires.
06-12-12, 12:58 AM
#74
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Pa
Posts: 347
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
so when you say key to on do you mean at anytime when the key is "on" before and after cranking over? Or just after the engine starts and key lands back to "on"? And the goal here is to have it jumpered? And I'm still not quite sure what's actually jumpered? Sorry I know I'm way hard to deal with my Haynes manual is on order I'm waiting for it... I do this all on my phone so it's a real pain in the neck and the FSM won't load on it... Stupid smartphones...
06-12-12, 01:35 AM
#75
so when you say key to on do you mean at anytime when the key is "on" before and after cranking over? Or just after the engine starts and key lands back to "on"? And the goal here is to have it jumpered? And I'm still not quite sure what's actually jumpered? Sorry I know I'm way hard to deal with my Haynes manual is on order I'm waiting for it... I do this all on my phone so it's a real pain in the neck and the FSM won't load on it... Stupid smartphones...