Which RX7 generation has the greatest potential
03-09-12, 04:04 PM
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Which RX7 generation has the greatest potential
Hello Friends...
... I have some questions, maybe U will be able to help me a bit.
I wonder which RX7 generation has the greatest potential.
So what I dlike to know is exact weight distribution, by"exact" I mean full corner weight balance for all generations.
And which RX7 has the lowest center of gravity height ?
I dlike to know all this for factory cars, does anyone here analyze this ?
... I have some questions, maybe U will be able to help me a bit.
I wonder which RX7 generation has the greatest potential.
So what I dlike to know is exact weight distribution, by"exact" I mean full corner weight balance for all generations.
And which RX7 has the lowest center of gravity height ?
I dlike to know all this for factory cars, does anyone here analyze this ?
03-20-12, 12:24 PM
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03-21-12, 05:54 AM
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Thanks for quick reply, You are right that I should better describe what I mean, I apologize for the inaccuracy.
I come from Polish, that's a pretty poor country, therefore what we mean by"potential"is list of the best performance for lowest price. (I'm not sure that I can describe this proper in English)
I'm going to but rx7 for racing. It will be very difficult to buy this car here, I'll probably have to import it from Germany. All that means a lot of effort, and additional costs for me.
So what Im trying to figure out is how much can be achieved on track from all generations, and for what money.
From what I see FD is too expensive for me.
So for now we can focus only on first two generations I think.
what interests me the most is comparison of:
- opportunities to reduce weight
- corner weight distribution
- height of center gravity
- engine, gearbox, suspension and chassis durability
- aerodynamic
- parts availability (This is very important here, my father has 626, parts for it are quite rare and expensive in Poland)
Seems to me that it determined 1st gen. center of gravity height (455mm from the ground), could You confirm the value ?
I come from Polish, that's a pretty poor country, therefore what we mean by"potential"is list of the best performance for lowest price. (I'm not sure that I can describe this proper in English)
I'm going to but rx7 for racing. It will be very difficult to buy this car here, I'll probably have to import it from Germany. All that means a lot of effort, and additional costs for me.
So what Im trying to figure out is how much can be achieved on track from all generations, and for what money.
From what I see FD is too expensive for me.
So for now we can focus only on first two generations I think.
what interests me the most is comparison of:
- opportunities to reduce weight
- corner weight distribution
- height of center gravity
- engine, gearbox, suspension and chassis durability
- aerodynamic
- parts availability (This is very important here, my father has 626, parts for it are quite rare and expensive in Poland)
Seems to me that it determined 1st gen. center of gravity height (455mm from the ground), could You confirm the value ?
Last edited by damusto; 03-21-12 at 06:01 AM.
03-21-12, 10:09 AM
#6
Polski!
My suggestion based on your location and from what I understand of your situation would be a 1985 FB (First Generation) with a 13B engine, 5 lug wheels, etc.
In regards to parts...I'm not certain what your VAT rates are or fees you have to pay for importing items but once you get your care I can possibly assist with sending you parts for it and maybe even a 626. Send me a private message to discuss.
Good luck and welcome!
Kevin
My suggestion based on your location and from what I understand of your situation would be a 1985 FB (First Generation) with a 13B engine, 5 lug wheels, etc.
In regards to parts...I'm not certain what your VAT rates are or fees you have to pay for importing items but once you get your care I can possibly assist with sending you parts for it and maybe even a 626. Send me a private message to discuss.
Good luck and welcome!
Kevin
03-21-12, 11:15 AM
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Thanks Kevin, I will keep that in mind. (And by the way, our VAT rates are 23% at the moment, and probably will be raised to 25, anyway I didnt check other import taxes jet)
OK, but first I dlike to see some numbers, to take a final decision.
I would choose the best possible option - even if it turns out a bit more.
The first obstacle: I tried to buy RX7 bible on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/RX-7-Mazda-rot.../dp/B000714IDC), unfortunately, seems they dont include Poland in their activity :-/
Its so annoying, I have that at every single step, I feel like I live in a"third world"country.
But since I cant buy books, I count on Your help guys.
Lets look closer to this 1985 FB, do You know any of the parameters I have listed above ?
OK, but first I dlike to see some numbers, to take a final decision.
I would choose the best possible option - even if it turns out a bit more.
The first obstacle: I tried to buy RX7 bible on Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/RX-7-Mazda-rot.../dp/B000714IDC), unfortunately, seems they dont include Poland in their activity :-/
Its so annoying, I have that at every single step, I feel like I live in a"third world"country.
But since I cant buy books, I count on Your help guys.
Lets look closer to this 1985 FB, do You know any of the parameters I have listed above ?
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03-21-12, 11:23 AM
#8
If you look in the forum, you will see that each section (1st Gen, 2nd Gen, 3rd Gen) typically has a section labeled FAQ's. In here you can find all of the information comparing the different models, options, etc. for each type of car. Generally it is better to read the FAQs then it is to ask questions from members who might be incorrect with their information!
There are some members on the forum who are VERY knowledgeable but until you figure out which ones it may be best to confirm on your own!
For example here is a link to the 1st Gen FAQs...you can find the 2nd and 3rd as well in their respective sections! https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/1st-gen-rx-7-faq-page-237777/
It should be noted I've owned every generation of RX7 and a 13B 1st Gen, due the lightweight and suspension is an amazingly fun car to drive!
There are some members on the forum who are VERY knowledgeable but until you figure out which ones it may be best to confirm on your own!
For example here is a link to the 1st Gen FAQs...you can find the 2nd and 3rd as well in their respective sections! https://www.rx7club.com/1st-generation-specific-1979-1985-18/1st-gen-rx-7-faq-page-237777/
It should be noted I've owned every generation of RX7 and a 13B 1st Gen, due the lightweight and suspension is an amazingly fun car to drive!
03-21-12, 11:54 AM
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Yes You are absolutely right, Im searching the forum for some time of course. There are a lot of information, whats more I became interested in this car under their influence.
The trouble is, I am not able to find exactly those that I am interested.
I know, from COMPETITION PREPARATION AND SERVICE MANUAL book, that Mazdas 12A engine will survive 2000-3000 or even 4000km in race conditions, depending on rev limit.
But I can not figure out how this is case 13B engine thay You mentioned.
I will continue my exploratin of course, but I hope that someone will help in the meantime.
The trouble is, I am not able to find exactly those that I am interested.
I know, from COMPETITION PREPARATION AND SERVICE MANUAL book, that Mazdas 12A engine will survive 2000-3000 or even 4000km in race conditions, depending on rev limit.
But I can not figure out how this is case 13B engine thay You mentioned.
I will continue my exploratin of course, but I hope that someone will help in the meantime.
03-21-12, 12:18 PM
#10
Here is another suggestion: There is a race car section on the site...start there.
Sometimes people don't look to see where you are from so I would start by mentioning you are from Poland and finding information isn't always easy! =)
I would then ask some of your questions specifically to the members who do race. I believe you will find that most rotary engines (in particular NA) will far exceed 4000km in race conditions as long as you do not have a catastrophic failure in the cooling/oil systems.
If I can help you at all, just send a PM.
Sometimes people don't look to see where you are from so I would start by mentioning you are from Poland and finding information isn't always easy! =)
I would then ask some of your questions specifically to the members who do race. I believe you will find that most rotary engines (in particular NA) will far exceed 4000km in race conditions as long as you do not have a catastrophic failure in the cooling/oil systems.
If I can help you at all, just send a PM.
03-21-12, 01:27 PM
#11
A 13B 1st gen (in stock form) will be very hard to find in Poland as the GSL-SE ('84-'85 1st gen with a 13B) is really a North American car. Otherwise, I agree that it would be a good choice. If you did find a GSL-SE, the engine is very similar to the '86-'88 non-turbo FCs, so the same kind of engine life is expected. The FC version of the engine has slightly more power.
If you need help buying that book, send me a PM and I will help you.
Checking the race car section is a good idea. Make sure that you tell them what kind of races you are interested in (autocross, short track racing, endurance racing, etc.). Depending on what kind of racing that you want to do, there may be a different suggestion as to which car you should use.
If you need help buying that book, send me a PM and I will help you.
Checking the race car section is a good idea. Make sure that you tell them what kind of races you are interested in (autocross, short track racing, endurance racing, etc.). Depending on what kind of racing that you want to do, there may be a different suggestion as to which car you should use.
03-21-12, 01:29 PM
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My submission for the best 'classic'
In its naturally aspirated way, my vote would be for the GTU as a 'modern' sports car. Lightweight but fast. (Not everyone wants to worry about a ceramic disc spinning at xxxxRPM!) Cars used to fall into two weight/power classes: most cars: 31lbs/hp; sports cars: 19lbs/hp. Well, The RX7 GTU comes in at 18 and change. Plus, it is sort of two cars in one: shift around 4300rpm you have yourself a Toyota. Shift around 6300 and there you go! A rocket! Plus, the cool rear suspension I've mentioned before and the beautiful looks!
03-21-12, 03:52 PM
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Lets see my car need to be road legal, I need to get from stage to stage in it.
What Im gona do is more like hillclimb, and some times"KJS" (which is a bit like US autocross)
Later, if I will feel good in it, and money will allow, I will try my luck in historical rally events too.
I'll operate under the FIA regulations.
I found first gen. Gr.1 and Gr.2 homologation, there are many very helpful information.
I'm still looking for Gr.4 or rather later, so Gr.B homologations.
Now I will ask in other sections but for now it seems I need to have miniumum 20 posts to do that.
thanks for all replies so far.
I think I can start to build a comparative statement, if something does not agree please correct me:
I'm not sure why another post was created, and why I cant delete a previous one
What Im gona do is more like hillclimb, and some times"KJS" (which is a bit like US autocross)
Later, if I will feel good in it, and money will allow, I will try my luck in historical rally events too.
I'll operate under the FIA regulations.
I found first gen. Gr.1 and Gr.2 homologation, there are many very helpful information.
I'm still looking for Gr.4 or rather later, so Gr.B homologations.
Now I will ask in other sections but for now it seems I need to have miniumum 20 posts to do that.
thanks for all replies so far.
I think I can start to build a comparative statement, if something does not agree please correct me:
So generally we have two types
SA/FB .....................................FC
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine: ................... 12A-1156cc .......................... 13B-1308cc ....................
Power: ..................... ~105 hp (6000)...................... ~ 148 hp (6500)...............
Torque: ..................... ~ 144 Nm (4000)................... ~ 182 Nm (3000)..............
durability: ................. +4000km .............................. (similarly) ......................
fuel consumption: ....... 15.2 l/100km .......................... 15.1 l/100km .................
------------------------------------------ weight distribution -------------------------------
Weight: .................... 1009 kg ................................ 1175 kg ......................
reduce ability: ............ *** kg ................................. *** kg ........................
bhp/ton: ..................... 104 ....................................... 126 ..........................
Front/Rear: ................ AA/BB% ................................ AA/BB% .......................
Left/Right: .................. AA/BB% ................................ AA/BB% .......................
CGH : ........................ 455mm .................................. XXXmm ......................
-------------------------------------------- aerodynamics -----------------------------------
Cd : ........................... 0.36 ....................................... 0.31 .......................
Area: ......................... X.XXm2 .................................. X.XXm2 ......................
Cl(front): ........................ 0.XX ....................................... 0.XX ...........................
Cl(rear): ........................ 0.XX ....................................... 0.XX ...........................
------------------------------------------------- price -----------------------------------------
..................................... XXXXX $ .................................. XXXXX $ .......................
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Engine: ................... 12A-1156cc .......................... 13B-1308cc ....................
Power: ..................... ~105 hp (6000)...................... ~ 148 hp (6500)...............
Torque: ..................... ~ 144 Nm (4000)................... ~ 182 Nm (3000)..............
durability: ................. +4000km .............................. (similarly) ......................
fuel consumption: ....... 15.2 l/100km .......................... 15.1 l/100km .................
------------------------------------------ weight distribution -------------------------------
Weight: .................... 1009 kg ................................ 1175 kg ......................
reduce ability: ............ *** kg ................................. *** kg ........................
bhp/ton: ..................... 104 ....................................... 126 ..........................
Front/Rear: ................ AA/BB% ................................ AA/BB% .......................
Left/Right: .................. AA/BB% ................................ AA/BB% .......................
CGH : ........................ 455mm .................................. XXXmm ......................
-------------------------------------------- aerodynamics -----------------------------------
Cd : ........................... 0.36 ....................................... 0.31 .......................
Area: ......................... X.XXm2 .................................. X.XXm2 ......................
Cl(front): ........................ 0.XX ....................................... 0.XX ...........................
Cl(rear): ........................ 0.XX ....................................... 0.XX ...........................
------------------------------------------------- price -----------------------------------------
..................................... XXXXX $ .................................. XXXXX $ .......................
I'm not sure why another post was created, and why I cant delete a previous one
Last edited by damusto; 03-21-12 at 04:06 PM.
03-21-12, 04:43 PM
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thanks Kent
BTW
I have 4 road test articles, al them about 1st gen. and all of them report different mass balance (none of them write exactly how did they measurement)
PS
is there any way to post here simple html tabe, my table code dont work proper
BTW
I have 4 road test articles, al them about 1st gen. and all of them report different mass balance (none of them write exactly how did they measurement)
PS
is there any way to post here simple html tabe, my table code dont work proper
03-21-12, 04:57 PM
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It really breaks down to what you want to do, how much you are willing to spend and your own creativeness.
Now my personal opinion, i went with FC myself because it hit all the criteria that I was looking for.
Now my personal opinion, i went with FC myself because it hit all the criteria that I was looking for.
03-21-12, 05:43 PM
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You're absolutely right, I know I not able to predict exactly all costs and all opportunities.
However, I'm an engineer, my mind works in a certain ways. Of course I can do racer from every car but I know that sometimes it makes no sense.
No I called it wrong way, it always mayke some sens, but offen can be done cheaper and give better results at the same time.
I like to talk specifically. U say: "I went with FC myself because it hit all the criteria that I was looking for"
its OK, but to me it means nothing. Nothing until You will specify all this criteria, I hope You know what I mean. Otherwise it's just another statistical voice on FC.
My idea and experiences are easy, the less I will spent on car maintenance and alteration, the more I will have for the season.
Whats more I dont know how much money I'll have - I just do not know.
I work as an architect, a freelancer, I dont have a fixed salary(usually its enough).
For example, because of low engine life, I have refrained from buying Porsche 914, for now RX7 looks a lot better in my opinion.
In summary Im looking for nice done car which dont need to much of my creativeness.
However, I'm an engineer, my mind works in a certain ways. Of course I can do racer from every car but I know that sometimes it makes no sense.
No I called it wrong way, it always mayke some sens, but offen can be done cheaper and give better results at the same time.
I like to talk specifically. U say: "I went with FC myself because it hit all the criteria that I was looking for"
its OK, but to me it means nothing. Nothing until You will specify all this criteria, I hope You know what I mean. Otherwise it's just another statistical voice on FC.
My idea and experiences are easy, the less I will spent on car maintenance and alteration, the more I will have for the season.
Whats more I dont know how much money I'll have - I just do not know.
I work as an architect, a freelancer, I dont have a fixed salary(usually its enough).
For example, because of low engine life, I have refrained from buying Porsche 914, for now RX7 looks a lot better in my opinion.
In summary Im looking for nice done car which dont need to much of my creativeness.
03-22-12, 02:18 PM
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I think that 3rd gen is racing in GT class with Porsches and Ferraris.
I would stay in T class, I have two reasons for that. One we havent to much GT races in Poland, two it will be difficult to compete with a small budget in GT class.
I believe that 3rd gen is realy fantastic car and in my opinion is the prettiest RX, but seems to me that it is just to expensive.
I would stay in T class, I have two reasons for that. One we havent to much GT races in Poland, two it will be difficult to compete with a small budget in GT class.
I believe that 3rd gen is realy fantastic car and in my opinion is the prettiest RX, but seems to me that it is just to expensive.
03-23-12, 06:33 PM
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I'm surprised, I was looking for "Weight Reduction" with forum serch engine, and I havent got satisfactory results.
Fortunately, I found this thread looking over whole forum by myself.
I will have to ask this 1st7heaven guy, if he has done this 1800lbs/816,5kg indeed
That would be very impressive result 192,5kg
Unfortunately I can not edit my table can anyone help please ?
PS
It seems to me that it is worth to collect such data in some stuck thread, Will You agree with me ?
Fortunately, I found this thread looking over whole forum by myself.
I will have to ask this 1st7heaven guy, if he has done this 1800lbs/816,5kg indeed
That would be very impressive result 192,5kg
Unfortunately I can not edit my table can anyone help please ?
PS
It seems to me that it is worth to collect such data in some stuck thread, Will You agree with me ?
03-25-12, 08:17 AM
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I see another problem, it seems that FC was never been officially notified or approved by FIA, sad but true...and Im very surprised because of this.
Therefore I wonder how do it looks in SCCA or IMSA, maybe we can adopt some papers here.
Anyway from my perspective is a strong indication on 1st gen.
Could anybody advise something please ?
Therefore I wonder how do it looks in SCCA or IMSA, maybe we can adopt some papers here.
Anyway from my perspective is a strong indication on 1st gen.
Could anybody advise something please ?
03-27-12, 01:58 PM
#24
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I think of FDs as being fast
I think of FBs as being quick
Either one can be modified to be one or the other, or even both, but you're talking cash. Any modification on an FD will be a lot more money than on an FB.
If being quick is good enough for now, then check this out. This is a 100% stock 12a, with a Sterling carb, Racing Beat exhaust, and Respeed suspension. It is also my daily driver. At this event, the course was very tight, so I had an advantage over the Corvettes and Porsches (small, but there). This was the first time I ever beat EVERYBODY at an event, rather than just those in my class.
Including the original purchase price, I've probably got around 4k invested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtBPs...1&feature=plcp
.
I think of FBs as being quick
Either one can be modified to be one or the other, or even both, but you're talking cash. Any modification on an FD will be a lot more money than on an FB.
If being quick is good enough for now, then check this out. This is a 100% stock 12a, with a Sterling carb, Racing Beat exhaust, and Respeed suspension. It is also my daily driver. At this event, the course was very tight, so I had an advantage over the Corvettes and Porsches (small, but there). This was the first time I ever beat EVERYBODY at an event, rather than just those in my class.
Including the original purchase price, I've probably got around 4k invested.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtBPs...1&feature=plcp
.
