1994 Engine Rebuild Question
05-21-13, 07:48 PM
#27
20 hours to remove the engine, if that includes removal and replacing all the 'long block' stuff...turbos, manifolds, fuel and sequential system, etc. is actually sounding pretty reasonable....for a dealership anyway. I'm not saying it's not alot of money, but IMO, it's the hardest/most fiddly part of the job. I had a very knowledgable friend hold my hand during a DIY rebuild some years ago...and the sequential system still scares me some. If you have them do it, I would ask about the experience level of the technicians. Remember this car hasn't been sold in North American for nearly 20 years...and in low numbers to boot. Most MAZDA techs have never looked under the hood one one...let alone worked on an FD.
Know that the higher output of the later engines was almost exclusively a function of the later turbos they used, which were slightly more efficient. So unless you change the turbos, power output will be the same.
All the MAZDA internals that they would use on your rebuild would be the later versions.... i.e. two piece rather than three piece apex seals, along with some upgraded gaskets etc. Even if you wanted the older versions of these items...and I can't think of any reason you would, MAZDA doesn't sell them anymore.
Also know that some of the major parts (and most expensive), like housings, e-shaft and irons will, in all likelyhood, be well within spec and reusable if your car only has 58k. Main and rotor bearings may also still in spec...but personally I'd specify new bearings if your going to all the trouble.
One more thing...MAZDA only ever offered rubber vacuum lines. As you may have noticed, they get harder than a *****'s heart over time with the underhood heat. It's sort of a no-brainer these days that we use a quality silicone replacement for almost all of them. Just something to be aware of. Regardless, if you want a comprehensive rebuild, I would want all check valves replaced and the solenoids bench tested.
Know that the higher output of the later engines was almost exclusively a function of the later turbos they used, which were slightly more efficient. So unless you change the turbos, power output will be the same.
All the MAZDA internals that they would use on your rebuild would be the later versions.... i.e. two piece rather than three piece apex seals, along with some upgraded gaskets etc. Even if you wanted the older versions of these items...and I can't think of any reason you would, MAZDA doesn't sell them anymore.
Also know that some of the major parts (and most expensive), like housings, e-shaft and irons will, in all likelyhood, be well within spec and reusable if your car only has 58k. Main and rotor bearings may also still in spec...but personally I'd specify new bearings if your going to all the trouble.
One more thing...MAZDA only ever offered rubber vacuum lines. As you may have noticed, they get harder than a *****'s heart over time with the underhood heat. It's sort of a no-brainer these days that we use a quality silicone replacement for almost all of them. Just something to be aware of. Regardless, if you want a comprehensive rebuild, I would want all check valves replaced and the solenoids bench tested.
06-13-13, 01:20 AM
#28
Junior Member
Thread Starter
RX-7 Engine Rebuild Update – 6/12/13
No response from Mazda regarding the rebuild of my engine but the original estimate of engine availability has changed from the 2 to 3 months estimate.
I ordered the engine on 5/16/13 and the rebuilt engine was shipped today, 6/12/13, and should be here in a week via UPS ground.
Today I also ordered all new reassembly parts included in original posting plus added radiator caps. Total MSRP was $2,685 marked down to $2,367.
Have scheduled 7/8/13 to bring in RX-7 into the shop for the engine R&R.
No response from Mazda regarding the rebuild of my engine but the original estimate of engine availability has changed from the 2 to 3 months estimate.
I ordered the engine on 5/16/13 and the rebuilt engine was shipped today, 6/12/13, and should be here in a week via UPS ground.
Today I also ordered all new reassembly parts included in original posting plus added radiator caps. Total MSRP was $2,685 marked down to $2,367.
Have scheduled 7/8/13 to bring in RX-7 into the shop for the engine R&R.
07-24-13, 07:25 PM
#29
Junior Member
Thread Starter
RX-7 Engine Rebuild Update – 7/21/13
RX went into Skagit Mazda shop on 7/8/13 and was finished 7/21/13.
Tech working on RX was Ross Whetstone – he did an excellent job with everything done as planned.
He has previously R&R both RX-7 and RX-8 engines.
He R&R engine, engine mounts, radiator, both radiator caps, clutch, all drive belts, fuel pulsation damper, PCV valve, thermostat, fuel and air filters, ignition plugs, ignition system wire set, all heater core lines, all vacuum lines and all turbo ducting connections.
Also did brake system flush, transmission fluid R&R, fuel injection system flush service, heater core and overflow tank flush service and rear differential service.
Total hours – 27 – 20 hours was for engine R&R - $2,403 billed at $89 per hour vs $99 per hour.
Parts – list $6,543 less discount of $1,494 - $5,049.
Engine from Mazda rebuild in VA – initially estimated 3 months for rebuild – engine was delivered to shop in 5 weeks – list $4,568 less discount of $685 - $4,201.
With tax and other miscellaneous charges the grand total came to $12,000.
Problems – alternator replacement was last one in Mazda inventory and the electrical connections did not mate with the existing harness plug so the original alternator was reinstalled.
Starter came marked for RX-7 but was actually for RX-8. The gears did not mesh properly and on startup the solenoid did not disconnect so the original starter was reinstalled.
Engine did not come with break-in guidance and Mazda VA rebuild plant has no Customer Service contact point so I contacted Mazda Customer Assistance rep previously mentioned – Jose – and he provided the following:
“Unfortunately your remanufactured engine does not come with a break-in guidance document but we were advised that Mazda recommends the following when breaking in a new or remanufacture rotary engine:
· Consider a breaking-in period of 600 - 800 miles.
· DO NOT rev vehicle above 4,000 RPMs.
· Vehicle break-in should take place on the highway (avoid stop and go conditions).
· Preferred highway cruising speed would be 65 MPH (DO NOT exceed 75 MPH).
· Avoid city driving.”
Driving on interstate at 70 MPH has RPM at 4,000 in fourth gear.
I drove for first 100 miles at this speed then shifted to fifth gear and 3,000 RPM for next 100 miles.
600 more miles until WOT
RX went into Skagit Mazda shop on 7/8/13 and was finished 7/21/13.
Tech working on RX was Ross Whetstone – he did an excellent job with everything done as planned.
He has previously R&R both RX-7 and RX-8 engines.
He R&R engine, engine mounts, radiator, both radiator caps, clutch, all drive belts, fuel pulsation damper, PCV valve, thermostat, fuel and air filters, ignition plugs, ignition system wire set, all heater core lines, all vacuum lines and all turbo ducting connections.
Also did brake system flush, transmission fluid R&R, fuel injection system flush service, heater core and overflow tank flush service and rear differential service.
Total hours – 27 – 20 hours was for engine R&R - $2,403 billed at $89 per hour vs $99 per hour.
Parts – list $6,543 less discount of $1,494 - $5,049.
Engine from Mazda rebuild in VA – initially estimated 3 months for rebuild – engine was delivered to shop in 5 weeks – list $4,568 less discount of $685 - $4,201.
With tax and other miscellaneous charges the grand total came to $12,000.
Problems – alternator replacement was last one in Mazda inventory and the electrical connections did not mate with the existing harness plug so the original alternator was reinstalled.
Starter came marked for RX-7 but was actually for RX-8. The gears did not mesh properly and on startup the solenoid did not disconnect so the original starter was reinstalled.
Engine did not come with break-in guidance and Mazda VA rebuild plant has no Customer Service contact point so I contacted Mazda Customer Assistance rep previously mentioned – Jose – and he provided the following:
“Unfortunately your remanufactured engine does not come with a break-in guidance document but we were advised that Mazda recommends the following when breaking in a new or remanufacture rotary engine:
· Consider a breaking-in period of 600 - 800 miles.
· DO NOT rev vehicle above 4,000 RPMs.
· Vehicle break-in should take place on the highway (avoid stop and go conditions).
· Preferred highway cruising speed would be 65 MPH (DO NOT exceed 75 MPH).
· Avoid city driving.”
Driving on interstate at 70 MPH has RPM at 4,000 in fourth gear.
I drove for first 100 miles at this speed then shifted to fifth gear and 3,000 RPM for next 100 miles.
600 more miles until WOT
07-24-13, 10:59 PM
#32
Junior Member
Thread Starter
I plan to change oil/filter after 800 mile break-in.
I use a three inch circular magnet attached to the top of the oil filter to collect metal shavings.
I do not know if new bearings were installed.
Coolant temp at coolant refill neck measured 190 degrees F using an IR thermometer; using 50/50 coolant/distilled water.
I use a three inch circular magnet attached to the top of the oil filter to collect metal shavings.
I do not know if new bearings were installed.
Coolant temp at coolant refill neck measured 190 degrees F using an IR thermometer; using 50/50 coolant/distilled water.
07-25-13, 06:45 PM
#35
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Hey Sarge, et al,
Where can I get a reputable remanufactured alternator ? Search showed none listed on our vendor pages.
Mazda has discontinued them, O'Reilly is NIS and I do not want one from Flea Bay etc.
Samito,
Thanks for the info and concur.
Have 500 miles on the engine.
Mazda Customer Assistance - Jose recommended:
"I would like to provide you with some important contact information because ultimately, parts for older Mazda vehicles may become discontinued. *Mazda Mart (800) 221-5156 & Mazda Max (800) 365-2193 are two independent entities that can assist you with locating hard to find parts for your older Mazda vehicle."
Neither of these vendors had the alternator.
Where can I get a reputable remanufactured alternator ? Search showed none listed on our vendor pages.
Mazda has discontinued them, O'Reilly is NIS and I do not want one from Flea Bay etc.
Samito,
Thanks for the info and concur.
Have 500 miles on the engine.
Mazda Customer Assistance - Jose recommended:
"I would like to provide you with some important contact information because ultimately, parts for older Mazda vehicles may become discontinued. *Mazda Mart (800) 221-5156 & Mazda Max (800) 365-2193 are two independent entities that can assist you with locating hard to find parts for your older Mazda vehicle."
Neither of these vendors had the alternator.
Last edited by RAVEN007; 07-25-13 at 06:53 PM.
07-26-13, 07:32 AM
#36
IIRC, some time back Ihor at IR Performance was offering rebuilt/higher output alternators for the FD. I can't remember if he required a core or not. He's a forum sponsor and has a good reputation here. You might check with him ----> Contact | IRPerformance
Have you tried looking locally? There are a few places local to me here in fly-over country, so I gotta think that in your area there has to be someone that does rebuilds. If so, no shipping and likely less turn-around time.
Option 3 would be to check the PARTS FOR SALE section for a used alternator.
Have you tried looking locally? There are a few places local to me here in fly-over country, so I gotta think that in your area there has to be someone that does rebuilds. If so, no shipping and likely less turn-around time.
Option 3 would be to check the PARTS FOR SALE section for a used alternator.
07-26-13, 10:48 AM
#37
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Skagit Mazda has last Mazda alternator in the inventory which they tried to install in my RX but it has a three pin connector - my RX has a two pin connector.
Does anyone know how to adapt the three pin to the two pin configuration ???
Does anyone know how to adapt the three pin to the two pin configuration ???
07-27-13, 07:44 PM
#40
Junior Member
Thread Starter
Contacted IR Performance and they have the correct alternator available -
"We use the stock alternator case. It is a 2 wire alternator like the stock setup. A 3 wire won't work without extensive rewiring. Call me at the shop with any further questions 732-662-1794."
"We use the stock alternator case. It is a 2 wire alternator like the stock setup. A 3 wire won't work without extensive rewiring. Call me at the shop with any further questions 732-662-1794."
