RAVEN007

Here is my draft letter to the local Mazda Service Manager. What have I missed ?

I am the original owner of a Special Limited Edition 1994 13BT/S6 RX-7 VIN# JM1FD3336R0300872, purchased December 7, 1993 from Jim Slowik at Slowik VW/Mazda in Oak Harbor, WA with 58,000 miles on the odometer. (Mazda authentication attached.)

Engine needs to be rebuilt (with ceramic seals) due to a leaking coolant seal.
Engine has never over temped or been raced. Low coolant warning light has just started to come on after going 20 miles.
Do either Rick Terrill or Will Vogelman work for you – they have worked on my car in the past ?
Do you do this engine work locally or do you send the engine out ? (Do not want a rebuilt “core/crate” replacement engine unless a 13B-REW engine is available ???)
If so, then to what location and name of rebuilder ?

The following items also need to be serviced if not part of the rebuild:
Air conditioner recharge
Air filter / PVC R&R
Brake fluid R&R
ALL coolant radiator hoses R&R including hoses from coolant reservoir, air separation tank & heater
Fan belts R&R
Fuel injectors R&R
Fuel pulsation damper R&R
Gas filter R&R
Motor mounts R&R
Spark plugs R&R
Spark plug wires R&R
Timing belt R&R ???
Transfer/Differential oil R&R
ALL vacuum lines R&R

Do a 75,000 mile inspection including brake check
Detail engine compartment
Are there any other recommended service/TSBs that needs taken care of ???
(My maintenance log is attached)
Estimated total cost and time for rebuild/service and warranty ???

Cooling system capacity is 9.3 quarts.
I want system refilled with 6 quarts of coolant and 3 quarts of distilled water -- provided in trunk.
Oil capacity is 5 quarts – oil plus oil filter -- provided in trunk.

marclong

iTrader: (1)

I would stay clear of the dealership for starts.

marclong

iTrader: (1)

What are the ceramic seals for?

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

welcome.

i'm not an FD guy so my only advice will be quite general, but here it goes.

I agree you should stay away from the dealer. I know of 2 rotary shops in Washington (Atkins and I currently can't remember the name of the other) and of course, there is Pineapple in Oregon. Also keep in mind that there are probably also good, honest, members that are local to you, that could do all you want done. I think in fairness to yourself, you should probably check out the NW Regional forums and find the best option for YOU!

RAVEN007

I contacted Atkins/Rotary Doctor in Eatonville, which is about 4 hours away from me, and he only does the rebuild of a removed engine core and nothing else. I need a lot of new parts/service which Atkins will not provide/obtain.
Ceramic rotor seals replaced the metal rotor seals in 1994s to extend the engine service life.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

If anything, just get help gettting the motor out of the car and send it off for a rebuild unless you really trust your dealership and the mechanics working there. Even with RX8 out, not too many trained mechs at a dealership I'd trust to remove and rebuild.

Most of your other maintenance items can be done easily with motor out. What diabolical said by checking out NW forums. Great way to meet some new people too.

Good luck!

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

*If you need to describe your car to a dealership you're considering for repair work, you're in trouble already.
*What's so "Special Limited Edition" about your car?
*Mazda doesn't offer ceramic seals, and I doubt a Mazda Service Department will install anything but Mazda parts. Or put differently, they wouldn't be willing to stand-behind anything aftermarket.
*Understand that the A/C system doesn't need to be opened for a rebuild. So unless it's already not working, it's unnecessary to discuss this.
*Your engine doesn't have a 'timing belt".
*Replacing the fuel injectors with 58k is expensive over-kill IMO. Have them cleaned and flow-tested with new pintel caps.
*If you want a comprehensive rebuild, specify new side seals and all new hard seal (apex, corner and side-seal) springs.
*What about bearings? What about housings? What about side plates? Will you trust their judgement about wear?
*Replacing plugs and wires, what about coil-harness?
*IMO, bringing your own coolant and oil to a shop is like bringing your own corn-beef to a deli and asking them to put it on a cheeze sandwich for you. Besides, for efficient cooling with reasonable protection, that's too much coolant to water in most climates.
*Cleaning up after themselves, OK. But detailing an engine engine compartment? Even if they're willing, why would you pay a dealership labor rate for that?
*The whole tone of your letter says to me you know little about the car and already suspcious of the place. It's hard to make a customer like that happy...no matter how good of a job they do. Personally I'd pass unless I were desparate for work.

RAVEN007

Sarge,
Look at my Garage Album to see letter from Mazda and door decals - only 339 built.
Also look at my other car.
I've had this RX for 20 years and know a few things about taking care of it.
Engine over temp recalls for melted fuel lines, melted coolant filler neck and fan running after shut down were caused by insufficient delivery coolant to water ratio and lack of user letting the engine run for a couple of minutes before shutting down. Running at MAX coolant to distilled water ratio causes no engine problems and keeps the temp gauge at the nine o'clock position.
Also having a few "glaring errors" in the correspondence insures that the reading editors have a chance to vent.
Navy EA-6B Prowler EWO
https://www.rx7club.com/members/raven007-177879/

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

What kind of documentation do you have regarding the ceramic apex seals?

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

*You have a chaste white 94 RX7 Touring. I'm sure it's special to you, as mine is to me. But low production color that doesn't make it a "Speical Limited Edition" in any way. Nor should it make any difference to how it's engine is rebuilt.
*Coolant to water ratio would have NOTHING to do with a "melted filler neck". Never seen a melted filler neck, but intuitively I could see over-heating being responsible for that.
*Water is much more efficient at cooling than ethlyene glycol, the more water in ratio the more efficient/better cooling. So it would also have NOTHING to do with overheating.
*Idling after shut down will cause coolant temps to rise, not lower. Get an aftermarket gauge and see for yourself.
*Since you've owned the car all these years, I'm sure you know the stock temp gauge isn't linear and worthless for reference. If it's made it to the 9:00 o'clock position, you've overheated. If the coolant seals failed at only 58k, that's probably why.
*Regarding the "glaring errors " in your "correspondence"...I have little idea what you talking about. Sounds like now your claiming they were intentional?
*Same for EA-6B Prowler EWO stuff. What does your profile have to do with anything? It certainly doesn't change my earlier opinion.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

I don't think any of us ever run max coolant to water...holy crap...car would heat up like a volcano.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

not for nothing, but ... this wasn't in your letter and it implies that you have a lot of learning to do, regardless of your 20 years with the car. I don't know what your previous sources were, but you're in a good place to learn. Use it. It's what it's here for. Peruse the Gen III FAQs at your leisure. Ask questions. You took the time to join the board, it was the right move.

RAVEN007

My RX-7 came with them.

Check here:
NRSRotorsports
Be Your Own | S3MAG.COM

Search Web for "Rotary Ceramic Apex Seals"

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

What kind of documentation do you have that shows that your original stock mazda engine came built with ceramic apex seals from the factory?
The Defined autoworks car you linked to is the furthest thing from a good source of information pertaining to your personal car.

unvmyrx7

iTrader: (14)

then your engine was rebuilt. you have a lot to learn my friend. 20 years of ownership and you dont have a clue.

How-To

Rob Robinette's 3rd Gen RX-7 Site

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

Maybe it's just your wording but to me it sounds like you are stating that 1994s got ceramic apex seals versus the earlier years metal seals.

Are you saying your car came with them stock, or that you had them replaced with ceramic after you bought the car?

marclong

iTrader: (1)

ceramic seals are like 1400 bucks. versus 400 for stock. I thought they were only for ultra modified engines. you don't need those for your car unless you got money to burn.

Andre The Giant

iTrader: (21)

^^ haha trust me, I'm not the one here who needs to be educated on them and their purpose

Sgtblue

iTrader: (16)

Not stock. As previously mentioned, if they're in there, you engine's been rebuilt previously.
^You just made our point. None of those sources say "MAZDA OEM".

marclong

iTrader: (1)

yeah I know. I was replying to the op. He thinks his car came with everything in the article he posted? certainly not.

Samito Built

iTrader: (38)

First off there's no timing belt in a FD but timing chain.
Oem stock apex seals are not ceramic but there are aftermarket that are more reliable then stock.
Looking down the list looks like lots of preventive maintenance which the car being 19 years old I would recommend most of it. Dealers are not all bad because I've worked for Mazda and surprisingly there are good educated mechanics. You should get quotes from several shops before you make your decision. Mazda doesn't rebuild FD engines they replace them to save from headaches and cover there warranty work. If you have any questions or need suggestions pm me and I'll give you some guidance if you need some.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Um no, there is no timing chain on the FD or any other Mazda rotary.

Samito Built

iTrader: (38)

Well not really timing chain my bad it really just helps spin the oil pump. Your right I just pronounced it wrong...

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

It doesn't help spin the oil pump, it is what spins the oil pump.

RAVEN007

RX-7 Engine Rebuild Update – 5/21/13

Dave Atkins, Eatonville WA 98328, wants $5,000 for engine rebuild plus $900 core charge and does not do engine R&R.
Atkins Rotary - Rx7 | Rx8 | Mazda | Rotary | Engine | Parts
I went to my local Skagit Mazda dealer to see if they would pull the engine and ship it to Atkins for rebuild but since Atkins was not on the official Mazda approved vender list they could not provide this service.
I then ordered a rebuilt engine from the Mazda Parts Department – N3G1-02-200R-00 – MSRP $4,568 reduced to $3,883 with Military/Senior Citizen discount. They waved the engine core charge since my engine is still functioning.
ENGINE, SHORT. ENGINE & GASKET SETS. 1994 Mazda RX-7 # N3G102200R00
Engines are shipped in preformed shipping containers –
Engine Transport Containers | EXT Durable Packaging
Mazda rebuilds the engines in Colonial Heights VA 23834 to the specs from your VIN number and the rebuild time estimate was over 3 months.
I contacted Mazda Customer Assistance to see if they could help in expediting this engine rebuild but they replied that their Parts Inventory and Supply Department latest estimate for engine availability is in approximately 2 to 3 months.
I then proposed -- Would it be possible to have my present engine removed and shipped back to VA and for my own engine to be rebuilt and returned to me as a means of expediting this endeavor ? I will pay for expedited engine shipping both ways. (FEDEX 3 day freight shipping charges are $1,086 each way.)
I also asked -- If available, I would like to upgrade to either the 1996 – 1998 265 HP or 1999 – 2002 280 HP engine.
Mazda’s response was -- I am currently having your request reviewed by Mazda Management. We will contact you once we receive confirmation as to whether we can fulfill your request.
My point of contact has been –
MazdaCustomerAssistance@mazdausa.com
Jose F.
Customer Assistance Representative
Mazda North American Operations
(800) 222-5500, X1180