haney4147

Ive got a caterham 7 and a 13b N/A that I would like to mate. The power of the peugeot 2.0 that is in it now isn't enough.

That being said what should be done to the 13b I am new to rotory engines and dont know where to start. FI vs Carb, What porting? I do have the tooling to do the port job myself.

I was thinking 200-250hp but have nothing to base that number on. keep in mind that the total weight of the car currently is arround 1000lbs and I do drive it in town occasionally.

haney4147

Forgot to mention that I could make use of the electromotive tec2 ecu that is currently on the peugeot. But I am clueless when it comes to tuning a FI system. Willing to learn if convinced that it is worth the time investment.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

welcome to the board.

personally, i think you should focus on getting it mounted and running first and foremost. i've read about quite a few of those Caterhams getting rotaries, but i don't know how many helpful threads are on this particular board.

as for the 13B itself, 200-250 hp (flywheel) is really not that huge of a hurdle, depending on the route you plan to take.

also, there is an Electramotive forum that you can check out to see what needs to be done for your TEC2 to work, or if it's simply better to change EMSs.

haney4147

I would like to do the engine work before putting it in the car as I plan to tear it down and inspect/replace apex seals and would like to shorten the downtime of the car. Mounting wont be a big issue i have access to a machine/fab shop and a waterjet machine at work.

So far im thinking a port job (dont know which one) with new intake and exaust. still debating between carb and FI would like to hear the benefits of each.

Im going to be out of the country for two weeks so ive got a little time to make a plan before I get started.

Pettersen

iTrader: (1)

Large streetport should be enough for 200-250hp with supporting mods.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well okay, in that case, i agree with Pettersen. start with a streetport.

as for your carburetor vs. EFI, unless it's for the sake of nostalgia, i don't see a point to running a carbie in this day and age when EFI is so easily attained. when it comes to performance, EFI will yield a better powerband. the cost differences went out the window quite some time ago.

however, i understand that not everyone will see it that way and the truth is it should be come down to the capabilities of whomever is going to be working with the car when tuning it.

haney4147

Alright I think im going with the pineapple racing large street port. diabolical1 you have convinced me. should I try to bring the ancient tec2 back to life (find software) or go with a different controller? are there any good trends on FI set ups that I should read up on? I dont know where to start with which intake, throttle body size, or exhaust requirements.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well, for the record, i felt it was probably the best move to get it all setup before touching the engine itself if nothing but for the sake of having one less question when it came to last minute troubleshooting. however, since you are going to take the engine apart before installing it anyway, it makes no sense not to port it if that's the chosen road.

i defer a response on this because i don't know enough about the TEC2 in a rotary application. however, as i said, there is an Electramotive forum here. also, i know that Defined Autoworks (GtoRx7 on here) works with TEC3s, so he may be a resource for your questions when you're ready.

does this mean you're not planning to run the stock intake setup? if so, again, my opinion would be to limit the variables. i think you should start with the stock stuff and modify later. however, to answer your question, i don't know about "trends", but i did like my Dell'Orto setup on my 6-port. i can only imagine side-draught EFI setup would be pretty awesome. i, personally, have not seen any IDA-type setups on 6-ports, but i know it's an option. there's also a Holley-type option you could investigate. my point is you have options when the time comes.

exhaust? you'll want flow obviously. rotaries respond VERY favorably to it, but they're also obnoxiously LOUD, so you'll have to find the balance that will work for you and the Caterham. at 1000 lbs., you could probably sacrifice a few horses (with negligible performance consequence) for noise control if you like a quieter system.

that's all i've got.

diyman25

My rotary lotus

1963 caterham S3 with GSL-Se and 48 side draft


a never endiing fun driving experience !!!

Dualist

Subscribed.!

I'm building a Haynes roadster and sticking a 13b in it too, still early days with the chassis though. Looking forward to seeing your progress

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

most of the 13B FI intake manifolds will limit you to around 200whp. carbs can actually get you higher top end performance while the low end will suffer. there are some exceptions, like a low rise manifold with TB injection(but you're talking about $2k just for the intake/throttle body not including EMS and fuel system).

benefit of FI is that the fuel starvation issue while cornering is minimal to nonexistent.

bigger more clunky carbs like Holleys will fuel starve when cornering hard, properly sized and tuned Webers will give you the best track related results.

if it is a later model 13B n/a engine your biggest restriction will be the exhaust diffusers.

seven13bt

I have a turbo 13B in my Caterham with TEC-1 EFI. Do you have the software that came with the unit and does it have four coils, each with 2 towers? If the answer to either of these questions is "no", then you won't be able to use the existing system.

CrispyRX7

iTrader: (139)

Just curious why not use a stock 13BREW? It's packaged to be compact and is guaranteed stock 255 HP at the FW. No "tuning issuess" no driveability issues, power accross the entire band, I was at the Carlisle Import show a few years back as saw one and looked and fit very well.

All this talk about carbs and tuning and eeking every last hp out of an old NA block when it's so easy with a stock BREW engine thatg is barely bigger than the NA engine. *shrug*

I've always been a fan of the Rotus. Just a thought.

Regards,
Crispy

R-R-Rx7

iTrader: (24)

handling sucked with the powerless 1.4 vauxhall engine it was offered in the uk. Not sure if newer caterham models are better equipped in chassis/handling

seven13bt

If you do find the software and you do happen to have the 4-cyl twin-plug coils, download the TEC-2 users manual and I can give you the basic parameters needed to get it running.

haney4147

Back in the country and finally have time to work on the car. Over the weekend I measured the motor and car to determine how to make it fit. After removing the rats nest of emissions equipment I will still have to go to a dry sump to get the engine low enough to clear the bottom of the hood. I already have a sump pump on current engine so I plan to just make a new oil pan from 1/2 inch plane using the waterjet machine at work unless someone has a better suggestion.

haney4147

I have not been able to get the software even after multiple calls to electromotive tec support. It is the 4-cyl twin coil. Starting to think I should just go with a webber carb for the sake of simplicity.

seven13bt

Since you're indicating that the hardware only has two coils, this is just the standard 4-cyl setup. The one that was sold for rotaries had four coils. While I prefer the tuneability and driveability of injection, an IDA or a DCOE can work fine on a naturally aspirated 13B.

haney4147

So Ill just assume that my ecu is useless on the 13b. If I go with the carb setup what do I do about ignition? my motor does not has the timing sensor rather than distributor.

seven13bt

Get a dizzy from a carbed engine and the MSD-6/coils setup, or an Electromotive XDi-2 system.

haney4147

Alright. Now im on the search for a distributor and intake manifold. Got the dry sump pan drawn up will be cutting it on the waterjet machine this afternoon.

haney4147

Got the Oil pan, Oil pump block off, and Oil metering pump block off plates cut out today. will post pictures when I get my phone back. now I have to build the oil pump bracket and scavenge pump pick up lines to finish up my sump.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

For intake couldn't he just use a Holley style intake manifold, a low profile 4 barrel throttle body (cheap when not TB injection style) and use 1,000cc injectors only in the primary position.

This would get you individual throttle bodies for cheap and provide plenty of fueling for 250hp+.

If you are rebuilding the motor anyways I would get rid of the 6 port side housings (assuming you have the most common 6 port NA engine) and get 4 port turbo ones so you can do an aggressive port with early opening for more power without destroying your side seals (read up on this before porting- even the common templates are wrong).

Early TII 4 port side housings are cheap because all the turbo guys want the later beefier ones (not needed in NA application).

-----

However, if I were doing this build I would actually do a bunch more research-

and then get used 13BREW side housings and do a semi peripheral port as its as easy as filling the rotor housing cooling jacket with polyurethane and using a carbide hole saw through the turbo coolant feed port into the housing for the peripheral port. 13BREW side housings because the semi p-port Holley style manifold is available for this configuration.

With a semi p-port you will probably have to use larger than 1,000cc injectors in the primary position or weld bungs into the manifold for injectors if using smaller injectors or get the expensive TB injection style Holley 4 barrel throttle body- as it will be 300hp+ capable.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Looks like semi p-port Holley manifolds are available for all configurations now, not just 13BREW.

Adam R.

I have ported 13b-rew + over 1,5bar of boost and that`s my baybe: RX Klub :: Zobacz temat - Nie wiem jak to nazw±ć, może tak jak jest w dowodzie SAM
the problems:
-engine height, you can see in my engine i cut off about 10cm from LIM
-next problem, air intake temp. intercooler are to small. there no space for bigger
-too much power and torque. I have 290mm racing tires and still was to much torque
-heat from exhaust, you have to use lot of exhaust wraps
etc.

now I thinking how to repleace e-shaft + rotors for renesis rotors and make the car N/A with p-port with 200HP at the weehls. 200 will be perfect

question: I must buy new housings, fc turbo housing are cheaper than fd. they are the same ? I mean spark plug holes are in the same place ? the same timing ? someone told me they have diffierent timing

sorry for my english