Thanks guys.
Any setup pictures would be much appreciated.

 

.7l surge tank, lift pump, main fuel pump, and filter, all tucked underneath an FB.

Some day I'll redo all of the lines in hardline now that I know that I've proven that it works. No more fuel starvation issues ever.

 

From my understanding all of that isn't necessary unless you really need it.
Like I would just need a pump and a filter for street and light track use.

 

I drove for five years without it. It would suck air below 1/2 tank in left turns, the harder the earlier. Would also suck air when going UPhill when down to the last two gallons of fuel.

Oddly enough, I stopped eating and overheating fuel pumps when I ensured that it would get a supply of solid fuel, not foam. So while you CAN get away with not having a surge tank, it isn't really the best idea and you have to accept that there will be certain liabilities involved. Like when you're down to the last gallon because you can't find a station and you start going uphill and the car quits just when you are least able to coast And that fuel pump life may be shortened, because once you get air in the feed line going up and over and down again, it can be difficult to get back out again.

So, yes, just putting an EFI pump where the original pump is, WILL work. But you can do better

 

I would really look at starting with the 2 injectors in the irons and after you have it working well, then look at adding 2 more and reducing the size. When I did it, I went whole hog and went with the 4 injectors, 4 throttle bodies, built my own manifold, routed the plumbing, fuel pumps, ignition, new Bridgeport, Megasquirt, staged tuning, everything.

All I can add to this would be to keep it simple to start with and eliminate as many variables as possible. Just do fuel using 2 injectors. Get that running and then add other features. It honestly took me a few years until I ended up with a bulletproof hard running setup like I have now. If I could do it all over again, I more than likely wouldn't as the costs were far higher than any purchased setup (you get nickel and dimed all project) and yes it is cooler than most setups, but the power isn't all that much better than you can generate from a programmed/ported S4 setup. And the fact that you are the only one who can work on your car as nobody else in the world will understand what was done.

Benefits are instant throttle response, a strong power curve that NEVER falls down with rpm and eye candy.

Eric

 

Eric can you please post pictures of your setup?
I'm interested in your 4 throttle body setup.

 

Lets see if I have anything clear enough.

Eric

 

I hate to thread jack but 23Racer, did you use the motorcycle injectors, pulsation dampener, and fuel rails? I picked up a set of TB's from a ZX12R Ninja that have 46 mm throttle plates. It has the fuel rails, new style injectors, TPS, and what I think is routing for an IAC valve.

Can I run as is with a megasquirt or other aftermarket engine management system? Does the megasquirt control an IAC valve?

 

I used the hayabusa bodies, rx7 injectors, custom fuel rail with stock pulsation damper, stock primary injector location in center iron and the hayabusa tps. Works well with alpha n with a Megasquirt. Really hard to tune any other way as manifold vacuum fluctuates to much and too fast.

Eric

 

For what it's worth, I am running manifold pressure based on my bridge ported "Holley" setup. Just have to run through a proper restrictor to the MAP sensor to damp the pulsation out.

 

Finally dug up the pics of the 510 rotary swap we did the TWM set on. Obviously, my memory is a bit fuzzy. I swore this engine did not have injectors in the center iron and had four injectors in the throttle body. Wrong on both accounts. It was a true -SE engine. The injectors bungs had been capped when the car was brought in with a poorly tuned Weber. If I had it to do again, I would just put some ID850s in the center iron and not run anything on the TB.

 

The pictures do not show up. They also do not show up on the N-P-- forum where I remember reading about this engine. I looked for it again because you used the RB upper that supposedly makes no power over 7000 and I wanted to see the power curve again.

Speaking of which... the dyno pictures don't show up either

 

Another question on the injectors.
Do I want high or low impedance?
I might be able to get my hands on 850cc injectors out of a Starion which are low impedance for free.
Will that work?

 

You want high impedance ideally, although the low impedance injectors can be made to work with inline resistors. Also depends on ecu though, some ecu's can drive low impedance injectors directly. The problem with those low impedance ones though is that it's old technology, and concidering the size you might have issues with low loads and idle. You can try them if their free I guess, but there are much better options, like the bosch ev14 injectors

 

Got my hands on a set of what I think are high empedance but they are 750cc for sure, for free today. Send them off to be rebuilt and then lets see where the build takes me.
Thanks guys!!

 

The 750s should be able to support you. In the early days of ITS, before ECUs were legal, we cheated and used smaller injectors as a way to obtain a proper fuel mixture with the stock S5 ECU. We used four 330cc Probe injectors and bumped the fuel pressure up slightly to get things where we wanted it. We made 185 whp at something like 50psi base pressure.

The power curve is typical of a stock port 6-port. Really not sure how the ITBs and manifolds effect power without back to back testing. It's hard to say the manifold is limiting upper RPM power when you know for sure the porting isn't going to allow power above 7500 RPM.

 

i remember that one! it still seems like its a great setup

 

In that car, it's a hoot. Thing probably only weighs 2k lbs. Kind of scary to see how thin the sheet metal is and lack of bracing that they used on those old cars.

 

So I think I've figured everything out except a fuel return line.
What does the diagram look like for that?
Do I need one?

 

Double post.

 

i was watching one of those "restore some random muscle car in a week* with giant chrome rims and sell it at auction for less than we spent working on it" shows and they were doing an old mustang, and i'm used to the Mazda where there is an inner and outer sheetmetal, the mustang only has the outer.

it no wonder those get restored so much, its like half the car


*its a week on TV, which means 3 months in not tv

 

Yes, you need to run a return line. If you are running a standard fuel system (no surge tank), then simply send the fuel from the return port on the regulator to the fuel tank (which already has a return line from the factory)

 

So I'm gearing up to order the throttle body.
Now I'm debating on either a 48mm or 50mm.
I'm leaning toward 50mm just because I don't know where this project will lead but 48mm will do the trick for what I believe will do me just fine.
I've got the fuel rails, pump, ect. Just missing the ECU and Throttle body now.

 

get the 50 mm. as you said, you don't know where things will lead and besides, even 50 is sort conservative these days. i got 50, and i often sort of wish i had tried the 55s.