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Naturally Aspirated Performance ForumDiscussion of naturally-aspirated rotary performance. No Power Adders, only pure rotary power!
From the "12A" to the "RENESIS" and beyond.
Can anyone post any dyno results for running primaries only? Or any videos of idle? I am finalizing the last few pieces of my set up and I still can't decide whether to run primary only or run staged. I would need to fab up a fuel rail and decide on secondary place to if I went with the latter.
I've only ever run primaries only. GSL-SE fuel rail and I blocked off the secondary passages on the S4 intermadiate manifold I used so that the air filter would fit better with no secondary fuel rail in the way. Basically any video you ever see on my YouTube channel that involves my RX-7 will be primaries only, since I don't think I have any videos from when I had a carburetor. Everything since September of '12 will be my ITB-like non-Holley setup.
If I can get my rearend put back together for this weekend (shredded a GSL-SE axleshaft, took out my last limited slip too and also wrecked the ring and pinion ) then our annual Dyno Day will see how well my engine does now with MS2 and RC 1000cc injectors.
Quinn's was the only one that I knew of that ever made it on a customers car. I liked how it kept the throttle body, and seemed to drive just fine. I heard great things about that car.
I wonder if we can get old man Kahren into this thread?
S5 6 port half bridge (primary bridge)
Racing beat street port dual system
Haltech f7b
Racing head itb w/ racing beat upper dcoe intake
Msd 6al2 with direct fire 2nd gen coil
Msd blaster coil and stock dizzy for trailing
Two 850cc injectors
Bosch 198lph pump
Sard FPR @40psi
4.77 Kia ratio with s4 gxl LSD
S4 tii trans
Exedy stage 3 hyper single
Plan on making a broad usable power band and 200+ whp
Pulls nice mid to high (5-10,000rpm)
^that is pretty close to the setup I have. I have a one piece manifold with the race head itbs. I still need to figure out how to adapt my throttle cable though. When I bought my setup, he hadn't created the cable wheel and only had the lever available.
I fabricated a bracket to hold the stock throttle cable bracket using the 10mm bell housing ground location. Buy the cable wheel from them it's cheap but keep it tight mine was getting loose and idle kept dropping. The tps is nice and works great when you wire it correctly lol. My afr is mid 12's throughout the rpm range wot and I dial fuel back 10% with my trim **** for 14 afr cruising.
I have to make sensors for the haltech air temp and water temp, I have the raw sensor that goes into the stock brass housings. I just put trim potentiometers for the sensors and locked them at a certain temp.
Yeah. I think I will purchase the cable wheel instead of trying to adapt different fittings. What do you plan on running for filtration? The way these velocity stacks are designed does not make them friendly to most itb filter setups.
I am personally debating just getting slip on filter for daily driving until I fabricate a plenum.
Just my opinion, but I have always felt that ITB's meant 4 individual runners and 4 individual throttles. Best way to be able to control flow and power characteristics without introducing reflective pulses and diluted signal. Just a simpler setup.
I get instant response and fairly broad power curve with 4 throats and 4 runners. Of course your experiences may be different, but I used the IPRA cars as a model when I built mine and I am now extremely pleased with the setup.
Eric
Are you opening all 4 throttle bodies evenly at the same time? Or do you have them staged to open primaries half way then start to open secondaries?
Are you opening all 4 throttle bodies evenly at the same time? Or do you have them staged to open primaries half way then start to open secondaries?
I am opening all 4 at the same time, but staging the injectors with Primaries in the center iron (like stock) and the secondaries out in the outer bodies. It may not be the best in terms of power, but it works great. Here is a picture of what they look like in car;
The driving characteristics are not at all what I was imagining. The car is very tractable, very strong at lower rpms and never lets up the pull to over 9,000 rpm. The only drawback at this point is that I am still running trumpet socks and they are really killing the airflow up high. I need to finish off my airbox and get better filtered airflow.
I am opening all 4 at the same time, but staging the injectors with Primaries in the center iron (like stock) and the secondaries out in the outer bodies. It may not be the best in terms of power, but it works great. Here is a picture of what they look like in car;
The driving characteristics are not at all what I was imagining. The car is very tractable, very strong at lower rpms and never lets up the pull to over 9,000 rpm. The only drawback at this point is that I am still running trumpet socks and they are really killing the airflow up high. I need to finish off my airbox and get better filtered airflow.
Eric
Thank you. That is interesting that you are opening them all at once. Is there a reason that you decided to do it that way?
I have a half bridge with a 4 barrel throttle body and it is currently set up for staged linkage, the staggering of the injectors is a little rough but it seams to have good controllable low end. I have a couple 88lbs/hr (1000cc) injectors sitting here and I am going to try to run just 2 injectors on the primary's. Only thing I am unsure of is having a smooth idle with these large injectors.
I opened them up all at once as I don't need low RPM tractability or fuel economy. Mine is on a race car and it just has to start, hold an idle and perform well north of 4,000 rpm. If I'm below that then it means I made a mistake and need to downshift or the car is coming in to the pits.
What has surprised me is actually how progressive the throttle is anyways. It may open more at 1/4 throttle than a stock TB, but it just means the car gets more air at a smaller pedal movement. Works great!
S5 6 port half bridge (primary bridge)
Racing beat street port dual system
Haltech f7b
Racing head itb w/ racing beat upper dcoe intake
Msd 6al2 with direct fire 2nd gen coil
Msd blaster coil and stock dizzy for trailing
Two 850cc injectors
Bosch 198lph pump
Sard FPR @40psi
4.77 Kia ratio with s4 gxl LSD
S4 tii trans
Exedy stage 3 hyper single
Plan on making a broad usable power band and 200+ whp
Pulls nice mid to high (5-10,000rpm)
I am currently working on itb manifolds that use cbr1000rr body's witch you can use s2000 injectors in so changing them is easy will have some picks soon if any one is interested in a set up for them selfs let me know
Body, trumpets, bosch tps, and cable wheel. And when you order tell them to swap the throttle rod around (fits perfect when the tps is on the front and you can use the stock throttle cable)
Body, trumpets, bosch tps, and cable wheel. And when you order tell them to swap the throttle rod around (fits perfect when the tps is on the front and you can use the stock throttle cable)
Body, trumpets, bosch tps, and cable wheel. And when you order tell them to swap the throttle rod around (fits perfect when the tps is on the front and you can use the stock throttle cable)
) then our annual Dyno Day will see how well my engine does now with MS2 and RC 1000cc injectors.
