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Microtech weird smoking problem!

Old 10-28-03, 10:49 AM
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weird smoking problem!

my car smokes(bluish) with my LT-8 installed,but not with the factory ecu installed. the smoke mainly occurs on decel. at this point i cannot figure what would make this occur only with the lt-8 installed!
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Old 10-28-03, 02:52 PM
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are ya using the OMP or premix? blueish is norm oil.
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Old 10-28-03, 03:12 PM
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premix since my LT-8 doesn't control omp operation yet!
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Old 10-28-03, 03:29 PM
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omp is still connected with vacuum lines and all.
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Old 10-29-03, 11:08 PM
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Guess it's a S5 OMP then? I really can't think of any reason why it would smoke only on decel. Did it start right after the install or did some time go by before it started? Have ya tuned yet? What premix ratio are you using? I'm just stabbing in the wind here, hopping to hit something.

My car smoked like mad after my install. Tracked it down to the turbo. (being rebuilt as we speak)

Maybe someone else will chime in...............
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Old 10-30-03, 05:37 AM
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It will be interesting to see how your car runs with the new turbo...
We will be tearing down a motor soon, that has also had a smoking problem after the microtech install, the microtech fired the ignitors when the engine was not running and may have done some internal damage to the motor, tear down will reveal I guess...
What does the smoke smell like? The thing that bothers me is that the smoke from the engine here, is rather fuelly smelling, and does not smell like burnt oil, I have feeling the injector timing on the microtech is off, of the injection times per injector are different, causing one rotor to run super *** rich.. A wideband in the car is doing a rich/lean dance, the motor compression tests good. If this motor looks ok on the inside, its and lt-8 thing then, this weekend we should have an answer...Max
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Old 10-30-03, 05:31 PM
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Originally posted by Maxthe7man
It will be interesting to see how your car runs with the new turbo...
We will be tearing down a motor soon, that has also had a smoking problem after the microtech install, the microtech fired the ignitors when the engine was not running and may have done some internal damage to the motor, tear down will reveal I guess...
What does the smoke smell like? The thing that bothers me is that the smoke from the engine here, is rather fuelly smelling, and does not smell like burnt oil, I have feeling the injector timing on the microtech is off, of the injection times per injector are different, causing one rotor to run super *** rich.. A wideband in the car is doing a rich/lean dance, the motor compression tests good. If this motor looks ok on the inside, its and lt-8 thing then, this weekend we should have an answer...Max
It was and still is a wierd situation. White smoke not blue at all really. The smoke has NO smell of oil, but stinks of fuel big time. The WB sensor is all over the map (techedge). No amount of tuning could get rid of the smoke. Sometimes it would idle with no smoke for 10-15 minutes at a time, and then bam it would start pouring smoke out again. An oily type black substance would come out the wastegate (external) and when the intake and exhuast manifolds are pulled the exhuast ports are dry with some carbon build up, and the lower intake manifold is wet with oil, but the spark plugs are dry. I hope we find the cause when we rip the motor apart. Could an injector driver maybe be blown or not operating properly?
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Old 10-31-03, 07:43 AM
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I can't wait to see how this plays out. White smoke that stinks of fuel. Comes and goes as it pleases. As bad is it would suck, sometimes it just takes the smallest of things for a rebuild to fail. Even if it's built by the best. That being said, I guess if even the best of engine builders can mess up, so could MT.

Oil in the mani? Are you still useing the OMP? For some reason I thought you premixed.
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Old 10-31-03, 09:46 AM
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What are teh chances that it could be the streetport that could be causing the oil problem? .. could the porting have been a little too excessive and was brought into the oil seal track?
I know you are quite careful with your porting Max, and the porting job that you did on your own motor turned out great.. however as Himni said, sometimes thing sjsut mess up.. nobody can gaurentee that they will end up with 2 identical port jobs one 2 diffrent cars.. .I just would hate to have this overlooked, motor torn down, nothing wrong is found, microtech is blamed, motor reassembled, new MT put in and the samething starts happening again that would really suck....
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Old 10-31-03, 12:50 PM
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well i have an FD and the smoke mainly occurs on decel especially after boost. with a stock ecu installed back in the car these issues are non existant.
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Old 10-31-03, 08:30 PM
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Originally posted by Chris Ng
What are teh chances that it could be the streetport that could be causing the oil problem? .. could the porting have been a little too excessive and was brought into the oil seal track?
I know you are quite careful with your porting Max, and the porting job that you did on your own motor turned out great.. however as Himni said, sometimes thing sjsut mess up.. nobody can gaurentee that they will end up with 2 identical port jobs one 2 diffrent cars.. .I just would hate to have this overlooked, motor torn down, nothing wrong is found, microtech is blamed, motor reassembled, new MT put in and the samething starts happening again that would really suck....
My porting on my motor, is larger than the porting done on this motor, if a motor was going to smoke , it would be mine, there is alot of meat around the oil seal track, you'd have to chew into quite a bit, to start a smoking problem with the porting...
I am pretty much convinced somethings funky with that microtech, but I am going to tear down the motor anyway and have a look inside, and make sure the ignitor pop/misfire didn't break something, it may have flattened the oil seal springs , or broken the seal itself, we shall see anyway..
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Old 11-01-03, 08:22 AM
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I appreciate the concern from everyone, I can't thank you enough.

The situation for me is cut and dry. This time around I have NO room for error. If the car does not run properly this time around I will be forced to sell it at a significant loss, of not only money but time as well. Which would be a real shame. To that end I will be taking every precaution. The Microtech is going back to be checked out and fitted with the BAC valve option. This should hopefully resolve any issues it may have. If we pull the motor apart and find something broken that can explain the smoking problem, then I am willing to make the reasonable assumption that that broken piece was the cause of the problem, and the motor will be rebuilt as is, replacing that broken part. If the motor is torn apart and nothing is broken, then I have no choice but to rebuild the motor and use stock housings. It's not a matter of pride, or workmanship, or anything, I very simple can't take the risk, no matter how minor it may be determined to be. If at a later date after the car is running well with no issues (if it ever does) then I can pull the motor apart and use ported housings. At this point I just need the car to run, it does not need to make big power, it just needs to run, if it can't do that then it's gone, and becomes someone elses headache, and heartache.

Cheers
Graham
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Old 11-02-03, 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by Maxthe7man
My porting on my motor, is larger than the porting done on this motor, if a motor was going to smoke , it would be mine, there is alot of meat around the oil seal track, you'd have to chew into quite a bit, to start a smoking problem with the porting...
I am pretty much convinced somethings funky with that microtech, but I am going to tear down the motor anyway and have a look inside, and make sure the ignitor pop/misfire didn't break something, it may have flattened the oil seal springs , or broken the seal itself, we shall see anyway..
the pop will not cause a problem i have spoken to Jon about this at length,

turborotarypower

have you taken any fuel out on the over run??

Dale
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Old 11-02-03, 06:51 PM
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Actually a pop will cause a problem if it is severe enough, and the rotor is in such a position that the energy cannot be disapated into motion... Imagine if the pedals on your bike were straight up and down and someone drops 1000 lb wieght on one of the pedals....something has to give...That popping is a problem, and this ems and installation is the only one I have ever seen it happen on..
We pulled the motor apart today, everything is a-1, the only thing left to us, is that the lt-8 is overfueling one rotor or not firing the leadings right..which takes us back to where we were before, the smoke from Rx7_turbo2's car smelt like gas, and the wideband does the happy dance, all over the place.. I am concerned about the rpm errors that show up on the car, and the fact that the timing lock is so poor... We are going to have to see if the microtech is seeing a clean signal when we get it back together, and if there is something wrong with the microtech..Max
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Old 11-02-03, 07:47 PM
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Yup motor was A-OK. Although I don't reccomend it for anyone, it was neat to see how a motor was comming alone with it's break in. So it's not the motor, it's not the turbo, it's not the coils, that leaves two options, The Microtech and/or my wiring. I'm not ruling out either. The Microtech is going back to have a diagnostics check done, and I'll go over my wiring with a fine tooth comb for the 50th time. Hope I can resolve this issue.
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Old 11-02-03, 10:25 PM
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hmmm the rpm signal will either be bad wiring, faulty cas, plug leads, if it gets a bad signal it can double pluse the injectors, espically if it is from the plug leads, if you are running pre mix it could just be that causing the problem or too much oil in the fuel

Dale
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Old 11-02-03, 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by 10sec rx7
hmmm the rpm signal will either be bad wiring, faulty cas, plug leads, if it gets a bad signal it can double pluse the injectors, espically if it is from the plug leads, if you are running pre mix it could just be that causing the problem or too much oil in the fuel

Dale
I am running premix, but at a ratio I don't thik would cause it, about 150:1.

I switched leading coils when I first installed the Microtech. When a timing light was put on the coil when it was on another car a signal was gotten no problem. When that same coil is put on my car it is nearly impossible to get the timing light to flash consistantly, even when holding the pickup in place. One wire you will get a very inconsistant signal, the other wire you will get NO signal. Like I said I will check all wiring, the Microtech will be checked, I will put on new plug wires (leads?) and I will swap the CAS.
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Old 11-02-03, 11:06 PM
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i know this is stupid but have you put in new plugs?? when it is hard to get a signal it is generally the plugs fowled up causing the problems, this can also cause the the smoking issues as well, i generally put in a set of B7em NGK's to get them running and tuned down low as they are hard as hell to foul

Dale
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Old 11-02-03, 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by 10sec rx7
i know this is stupid but have you put in new plugs?? when it is hard to get a signal it is generally the plugs fowled up causing the problems, this can also cause the the smoking issues as well, i generally put in a set of B7em NGK's to get them running and tuned down low as they are hard as hell to foul

Dale
Hmmmm.......The simple answer to that stupid question is no, the plugs are old and probably fouled beyond belief. I'll add that to the list of thing's to change when the motor goes back in. God I would hat to have gone through all this only to find out the plugs where the problem all along
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Old 11-02-03, 11:43 PM
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you will be suprised what plugs will cause,

if they were fouled they would fill up with oil and cause the smoking, and there would be no spark on the those leads,

put a set of b7em in it and i would be suprised if the problems didnt go away

Dale
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Old 11-03-03, 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by 10sec rx7
you will be suprised what plugs will cause,

if they were fouled they would fill up with oil and cause the smoking, and there would be no spark on the those leads,

put a set of b7em in it and i would be suprised if the problems didnt go away

Dale
I will throw new 7's in. Even when the motor was pushing "fluid" into the exhuast manifold, the plugs were always dry.
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Old 11-03-03, 12:45 AM
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cool, use the B7em to get it running and tuned down on the cruse and light loads, once that is done, throw in some B9EGV's and go nuts with the boost tuning.

Dale
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Old 11-03-03, 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by rx7_turbo2
I will throw new 7's in. Even when the motor was pushing "fluid" into the exhuast manifold, the plugs were always dry.
OK. I want to understand this fully. When we talked through PM's you said that you had a "puddle" of oil in the exhaust mani etc. Thought that the MT firing the coil without the engine moving could have messed up a oil controll ring. You opened the engine, and found nothing wrong there. So, if the MT didn't mees up the anything internally, how did that oil get there? I don't see any way the MT could do that. This doesn't mean it's still not at fault though.

After locking my timing, it's dead set. (No jumping around) When I checked the timing on my engine, before I locked it, to see how much it was off by, it didn't jump then ether. I stabed the cas almost dead on. Off by about 3 degrees. Are ya stabed right?

I raed that one guy had probs. with the cas signal jumping through he's heat shrink to other wires and F#$king **** up. Are the two cas ground wires grounded good?

I'm just throwing stuff out that may help.
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Old 11-03-03, 03:55 AM
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When you get new plug wires, make sure you get good ones. When I asked, what was best for the MT, The Magnecor won hands down.
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Old 11-03-03, 07:29 AM
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Himni, there is a bunch of things that went wrong in a sequence, first he had a problem with the maps on the microtech, when he got the car running, his rebuilt turbo was flooding the exhaust and manifold with oil , so he switched to another turbo which proved to do the same, then he used one of my turbo's which proved to be good, although after that we were still chasing a smoking problem...
After playing with my car, the smoke is a cas/microtech problem, I can make the smoke happen on my car, by pulling off one leading wire while the car is running..
The plugs remain dry, they themselves show signs of firing, but probably just at the wrong time , or intermittently..
I am going to spin the cas on an engine tester to see what the signal looks like, and rx7_turbo2 is gonna send his microtech back for a check out and to get the bac valve option enabled...
The timing lock on my car is rock steady, on his car its jumpng around by about 5 degrees or doesn't show up at all sometimes..more fun..Max

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