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Looking for the elusive matrix tune

Old 11-27-13, 05:12 PM
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Looking for the elusive matrix tune

Im looking to change over to matrix tune. Ive spent a bit of time searching and havent been able to find any maps.I understand how to change over just wanting to see a map and study the values and then modify and fine tune with the wideband.
So if anyone with a matrix tune is willing to post up their map and specs it would be much appreciated.
cheers
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Old 11-30-13, 09:46 AM
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A map for another car isn't going to help you unless the two cars are exactly the same. If they are similar, you have a starting point but you have not provided any info about your car.

The Microtech manual provides some fairly decent instructions on how to generate your matrix table from your existing "carburetor mode" tune.
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Old 11-30-13, 04:32 PM
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Thanks for the response aaron
I havent been able to find any matrix tunes at all.so asking for one thats identical to my car is worse than the needle in the haystack.
Once i have seen a matrix tune and get the owners setup im sure ill be able to convert it to closely match my setup.
Im suprised how few people are actually using matrix.Its a lot of time to set up and most are saying not worth the effort but i will persevere.
Im not chasing every last hp so will be street tuned but i dont want to setup 9k rpm and 20 psi etc on the street
Id rather have some theoretical numbers in there which i can check if im ever that high in the map.
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Old 11-30-13, 05:46 PM
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lets get this straight..


you want a short cut..

....

there isnt one

.. capiche???



dont pass go.. dont ask anyone to sugar coat it for you,, there isnt any ,, the hard way or no way

you expect someone to hand write you 256 plots

.. when you have been told already it wont do a huge amount over the 2.5 D tune ,, wont suit your engine ,,, and will in fact possibly go worse as it takes one bad plot to ruin your day and your engine ,, and there is 256 to get right

LISTEN to what you are being told on multiple forums
.. the matrix tune is a PAIN in the **** if you only have a handset
it CANNOT be swapped on the net without some idiot ( or two ) sitting down for more than an hr parrot style off his own handset ,, better hope you and him get all of them right


you have been instructed several times how to do it,, tune it in 2.5D
,, then flip to matrix .. use all maps the same,, go again,, this time matching each 500 RPM to the engines volumetric demands

and its going to take a LOT of time


... and mindful of the bug where it wont swap the idle tune over for you

which,, had you bothered to hang around with 2.5D and GRASP it
,, you already have plotted out with the shape of your RPM cruise and RPM WOT map modifiers


but.. this is not what you want to hear,, even though every response so far has been the same and you still ask for the impossible no one is willing or capable.. of giving you

sure,, you can grab someone elses memcal out of their handset,, but do they run the same injectors
, same porting,, same map sensor ,,
and if they dont,, many of those 256 plots will be more trouble then good
and you have in fact made the task harder than starting from the correct 2.5 d .. like the book,, and world, keeps trying to tell you
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Old 12-01-13, 02:09 AM
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wow

Last edited by rx3sum; 12-01-13 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 12-01-13, 03:18 AM
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Bumpstart please refrain from replying to my posts with negative and condescending replies as im not interested in this type of opinion.

Last edited by rx3sum; 12-01-13 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 12-01-13, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rx3sum View Post
Thanks for the response aaron
I havent been able to find any matrix tunes at all.so asking for one thats identical to my car is worse than the needle in the haystack.
Once i have seen a matrix tune and get the owners setup im sure ill be able to convert it to closely match my setup.
Im suprised how few people are actually using matrix.Its a lot of time to set up and most are saying not worth the effort but i will persevere.
Im not chasing every last hp so will be street tuned but i dont want to setup 9k rpm and 20 psi etc on the street
Id rather have some theoretical numbers in there which i can check if im ever that high in the map.
Using Matrix mode is absolutely worth the effort. But because the Microtech sucks so badly on the software side, we can't share maps. Hence there are few matrix examples floating around.

Honestlyly the Matrix table is just the same old 3D injector time table that many other ECUs look like.

Consider that if you can "convert" someone else's matrix table to your own car (not really, that won't happen) then you can convert the default matrix table generated when you follow the instructions in the Microtech manual.
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Old 12-01-13, 04:12 PM
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Thanks Aaron.
Ive started looking at other ecu fuel maps to see what they generally look like and thats enough info to come up with some rough figures that i can then fine tune with the wideband.
Once i get it roughly sorted i will post up the map so others will have a good starting point to make their own.
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Old 12-04-13, 03:16 PM
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changing from standard to matrix will put all the load cells the same from 3500RPM to 9k, idle map only affects the range where the TPS is properly zeroed out. so if you switch to matrix mode and the car idles differently or stalls it is because the TPS wasn't set properly to start with, then you can tune the 1k-3500 maps according to load, the rest will act exactly how it did before but with the ability to fine tune each RPM segment.

for anyone wanting microtech maps, stop bothering begging people for them. it requires writing down several hundred lines of text while reading them from their own personal car. if you get something you should buy that person a case of beer for their effort. any other standalone this isn't a big thing to ask of people since ALL other ECUs virtually have the ability to save a map to disc and put it up somewhere on a storage website to link to, not the case here, it takes an hour to do what you're asking.

Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-04-13 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 12-04-13, 06:50 PM
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/\ thank you.. at least one person sees my point

who the **** has the time to hand plot 256 points onto a forum
..
to make someone elses day ( not )

so they can hand parrot it down.. and make errors in the translation/ transmission from a map that was never close to start with anyhows..

and then the result is a whole pile of unsuited plots points within the map

,,waiting for exactly the worst moment,, to let you know the data is wrong

....woa betide anybody trying to stand in your way through to an easy already tuned for you matrix map


but ,, woa betide me,, who for you... stripped several engines,, prepped them,, added the porting template
put forward a comprehensive list of required part numbers

to have the job yanked out from under me cause the cat ate the homework ( or something like that )

then .. i still came to the party and helped you out with my own personal highflow turbo,, rebuilt
and given away for less than cost...
cause you where hemorrhaging at me about engine smoke
( on the engine i was supposed to ,, went to a lot of effort for.. ,, but did not build )



so .. the other day .. i sit down again,, ...long enough to spell it out for you that you are going about matrix tune entirely the WRONG and LONG way


if i come across as frustrated,,it is because i am
as this was all spelled out correctly on another forum
and the OP chose to put up blinkers against the replies he received about the scope and result of the path he wished to take

i would suspect that i have gone above and beyond for you brent
.. and had you tried this game at rotormotion,, what what you expect?
sure,, they will tune it in matrix for you.. but for $600

and it will still be shithouse on the street cause no time went into getting the 2.5D tune right FIRST
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Old 12-05-13, 05:20 AM
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Maybe i wasnt clear enough in my first post im after more of what a 3d map should look like and wasnt after anyones actual tune just a rough idea(since answered by aaron).
I will happily put up my tune when im happy with it so hopefully it helps someone in the future but i guess thats just me.
Im learning to tune and am taking all the advice i can at the moment and then weighing up with what i believe to be the persons real experience.
Bumpstart you never fail to amaze with your amount of knowledge and i hold your opinion in very high regard but i weigh up all opinions and make my own decision rather than becoming your parrot..
Obviously you will think im going the wrong way but just laugh to yourself and wait for the carnage to happen.Your negative and aggressive attitude gets tiresome real quick.
Yes you have helped me immensley in the past and I appreciate all you have done and usually paid more than you have asked to show this but if i dare do something different to your opinion you think you can dump **** on me to force your opinion.Sorry i wont take that from anyone.
Opinions seem still divided so i will persevere and make my own decision.

Last edited by rx3sum; 12-05-13 at 05:42 AM.
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Old 12-05-13, 02:24 PM
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the best way to learn to tune is by starting with a basic map and going from there, just plugging in some numbers won't teach you much as a starting point. understanding how the idle and low RPM maps work to get the car running and drivable will better suit you than getting something close enough to pop your engine.
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Old 12-16-13, 08:03 PM
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I don't have any matrix maps saved. Every time I have done a matrix tune on a microtech it has always turned out to be disappointing and we end switching back to normal mode for a much smoother tune.
I guess the only way maybe is to hire out a dyno and have a play. When no one will help you that is the best way.
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Old 12-21-13, 08:27 PM
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No one needs to write down anything. You can just "print screen" your matrix map then post the photo. It'll take 5 seconds tops.

I agree that fuel map will be different for everyone, but I would love to see a proper time map for Microtech.

bumpstart, by 2.5 D, are you talking about the idle/load map, rpm cruise, and WOT? Would you point me to the post that talks about how to do this? I think my issue is timing. I just can't get the engine to idle and go into load without massive hiccups and fowling spark plugs every 5-10 minutes. If I lean it out, it dies. I've been searching for proper timing map.
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Old 12-22-13, 09:31 AM
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Can you post a screenshot of your timing/fuel maps then? It will be fairly easy to diagnose if we can see them.

Fouled plugs sounds like you are running massively rich. I assume you have some way to monitor AFRs? How rich are you?

If leaning it out kills the engine, are you sure your CAS is stabbed correctly and not one tooth retarded?
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Old 12-22-13, 08:37 PM
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hey Aaron absolutely. but as you probably gathered from my other threads, my car is in pieces right now and while the engine is out, I decided to do a full wire-tuck and fuse box relocation. As soon as they're together, I would love to post it here. CAS is something I never played with because my pulley didn't have TDC marker on it and because I just don't know how to adjust it properly. My AFR at idle (when it idles) is low 11. When I make it leaner, it dies. Right after it dies, when I crank the engine with MIX TRIM at -99%, it does fire up for a split second, so I know it's rich... I copied timing directly from the TII base map thread here somewhere.
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Old 12-25-13, 09:19 AM
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It's critical the CAS be stabbed correctly so you'll need to figure out TDC. Which is pretty easy actually because when the eccentric key is facing directly to the exhaust/intake port side of the engine, that's TDC.

Sounds to me like the timing is WAY off. The car idle in the 13s (and any other ECU could idle it in the 14s with an idle valve).
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Old 12-26-13, 10:31 PM
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I'm hoping that's what it is. It would make lot of sense. I have the oil pan off, so TDC should be no problem now! I'll post some pics when I get to it again in a week or two.
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Old 01-02-14, 02:39 PM
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a racing beat pulley would have a proper TDC stamp on it, however most of the maps you will see posted for timing are based on the FC engine being timed at 5 degrees retarded for the 5/20 ATDC markings.
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