quasar

So after reading through just about every thread on this forum having anything to do with megasquirt and looking at every .msq file I could get my hands on i'm still confused.

I know that when any engine goes under boost the timming retards... But every spark table I look at suposidly running a turbo engine barely has any negative numbers. If at all I saw them at lower rpm ranges.

My question Is where can I find out more about setting this up, My problem is engine ping. And I think it has everything to do with my ignition timming. I set it manully with my light gun first, it idles like crap... that I understand because it's running rich.. Acceleration is sluggish... again because its rich. But after it heats up to running temps it starts to ping under a heavy load.

I read the whole MegaSquirt and Turbocharging page and I learned quite a bit about my injector timming but I dont think that is my problem.

What I'm after is should my whole table be negative numbers? Is it possible to have a table full of negative numbers? I'm afraid to try it because I dont want to harm my engine in any way. I first want opinions before I tinker with settings.

renns

Don't get hung up on looking for timing recommendations for MS. You are looking for timing info for a turbo 13B, regardless of ecu being used. As I said to topless in his thread, there's some good info to be had here:

http://forum.teamfc3s.org/showthread.php?t=41915

Note that the base timing at idle for the 13B is negative 5 degrees (5 degrees AFTER TDC), which corresponds to the mark on your pulley. Normal ignition timing you'll see while driving around out of boost will range from 10 to 30 degrees or more BEFORE TDC. These are shown as positive values. Typical maximum advance at wide open throttle for an n/a engine is around 25 deg BTDC. When boosted, timing is pulled back as a function of boost. The 1 degree per pound of boost is a common piston rule of thumb. Read that thread I posted earlier for lots of rotary-specific discussions. You should never see negatives in the driving part of the table, as that would indicate ignition is happening after TDC, which drives EGT's way up, and kills power.

AC LINKS

WOW!! Now that's priceless information there. The best I've seen yet. If this keeps up I will have to apologize for saying there is never any help here. All jokes aside thank you for this valuable piece of information.

quasar

I have never been let down by the team here.

I learned alot from that link, I read the whole thing and used the information thismorning. Got it to run much better.

My next question is what fuel does everyone with turbo use? I went to this kangaroo fill station around the corner from my house. Remember this is when all my problems started, It ran fine before i filled up. Even after reseting my timming it still pings, not as bad but now I think my brand of fuel is to blame. Using 89 octane.

AC LINKS

Turbo = 93
N/A = 87

quasar

I have done everything I know how to set the timming and I still hear this loud ping sound under a heavy load. I'm beginning to think it's this 200k mile trans I have. It wines between every gear I know the syncros are shot but could the trans make this knock noise?

I have checked my spark plugs and they look fine.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

have you confirmed the timing with a timing light? Even if your settings in MS are spot-on, you could still be off by a bit cause the CAS is rotated. And yea, that link kicks ***

quasar

Yeah, i have one of those $35 pep boys lights, by following the guide in the link I retarded the timming just a bit at idle because it's a turbo engine. I'm aware that I basicly have no clue how many degrees I delayed the timming but I'd say1/4 inch to the left of the marker pin.

That was set from the L1 tower on the leading coil pack going by the yellow mark "witch I have painted bright green because the yellow worn off, so if i mention the green timming mark you know what I'm talking about"

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Try to set it to 0, (line up the green mark when you fix timing at 5* atdc) and then do whatever adjustments you need to get the timing you want in the tables. This way, any settings are the actual settings, and there isnt much guess-work involved. If you want it to idle at stock, theres also an idle advance setting that you can use (I use it at stock 5* ATDC, works fine)

renns

Avoid pinging at all costs. If you are driving the car, keep your foot out of the throttle until the problem is solved, and keep it full of premium gas. Rebuilds are expensive... Tranny noise would come from under the car, and would not normally 'ping' as you describe.

Have you posted your .msq with settings? That would be helpful. Also, follow what topless says regarding timing. You want the cas stabbed correctly so that timing values displayed in MegaTune are correct. Make adjustments in the timing table as needed.

quasar

I dont have the rubber boot around the shifter stick, I can hear every noise under the car well.

I'm still playing with everything, It runs well under a lite load... well enough to get me to work for now. When I begin to push it it starts to make noises than I back off.

Refering to my other post about the rpm double thing I have scraped that msq file all together. I started fresh and so far i'm having good success.

Today I got the fan controller hooked up and working well, I got the boost controller hooked up and so far looks like it's working "havnt had a real chance to put it to the test because of my problems" And got some other lose ends tied up.

renns

Glad to hear you are making progress. Leave that boost controller alone until the other issues are sorted.

As for the pinging, try running at various engine speeds under light load. If the vibration is coming from under the car, it's usually rpm-related rather than load-related. Engine pinging is definitely load-related.

quasar

If i run the rpm's up under a light load it sounds ok, I installed the knock sensor circuitry but has one of the variable resistors you have to tune by hand, havn't had much luck with it so far but it does work. The main reason I think it's the trans is because i can feel the knocking on the shifter, like a bearing is going out in the trans. As soon as i step into the peddle it maks noise. A friend of myne is selling me a turbo trans when I get payed friday, I should know something by than.

quasar

By the way I work a 10 minute drive away from home and all the limits are 35mph. Usully packed with slower moving traffic trying to make it to work also. So even with a badly tuned engine well enough to limp around I think I'll have luck. One thing I have noticed at low rpm driving I'm getting bad hesitation and coolent temp rises, I'm running a narrow band O2 so i know I'm limited to tuning with that but I think I'm running rich as a pig in the lower rpm's. I'm going to do a datalog to and from work tommorow and see what it looks like after work.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

playing with the accel enrichments can help your drivability issues. Also, check to make sure you didnt install the primary leads on the secondary injectors, this will cause pretty bad hesitation, idle, and just about everything else. Ask me how i know... and with 1000cc secondaries too...

quasar

I got all of my wiring good. I got two datalogs, one on the way to work and one on my way home from work. The car didn't want to stay running till it warned up, You can see it stall out in the beggining a few times. I know I now need to play with my enrichments but i'm still not sure on what i'm doing. I basicly copied some other settings I had from someone else so I have settings but they arnt verry good.

I'l post the .xls files here soon.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

yea, it took me about 2 weeks of playing with the warm-up and afterstart enrichments along with the idle control til i got something somewhat drivable when cold (altho its def still not perfect, but its closer)

quasar

Here is what I did today...

http://www.chromeaccount.com/megasqu...20to%20run.msq

http://www.chromeaccount.com/megasqu...k%20monday.xls

http://www.chromeaccount.com/megasqu...e%20monday.xls

T2GTUS

I would bump up the cold accel enrichment a bit .. try 1ms increases at a time ...

I would bump up the cold accel mult also ... try maybe 10% at a time ...

other than the cold stalls how is it?

quasar

It's sluggish at low rpm's... I'v been staying out of high rpm's for the moste part because I start to build boost at around 4k from what I can tell. The few times I boosted it wanted to take off but i let back almoste right away.

T2GTUS

Your timing seems conservative below atmosphere ... as long as you do have it timed right(If you have a v3 board are you running the 029y1 code or newer? It has a setting to fix a couple degree timing retard as rpms increase).

Your fuel map seems a bit big to me if your real req fuel is 8.0 ... but what does your wideband say?

EDIT: sorry I see the narrow band settings ... also ... your staging at 4000 rpm ... with a 255 delay ... that is way to long ... try starting around 50ish ...

I will post a summary of the staging experiments we did this weekend when I can compile the actual log numbers.

quasar

029v...

I just watched "my ride home" and saw a few things I dont like. My O2 is all over the place, injector pulsewidth and duty cycle get close to peak at times, and my map is up and down all the time.

I think My cheap @$$ blow off valve is to blame for some of it. I think it leaks, one reason I cant build boost. I didn't think it would be a problem but now I realize it is basicly a vaccume leak.

My yellow dot is directly on the pin at idle...

quasar

The moste vaccume I can pull is 20 lbs.... it should be at 30 lbs at idle correct?

T2GTUS

if you are on 029v ... I think you want to flash at least 029w ... I couldn't even get 029v to run ... (Ken fixed a bug with it that affected only the trailing split code). It also looks like there is some noise on your tps signal only when you get into it, this is triggering accel on and off, perhaps you can increase the tps-threshold to combat this (I just find map-based accel easier).

T2GTUS

pulling 20 is very good at idle imo (I never seem to be able to pull that much, damn port jobs lol).