bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I was wondering if there is anyone from the St. Louis Area that has done a MS conversion with ignition? I am to the point I would be willing to pay for help on this. I have never been stumped like this before on any project I have tried. Anyone have time to give it a try? I just know it has to be something I have missed somewhere. Probably something very obvious to someone who has done one before.

I do really appreciate the help the people on this forum have contributed to answer by stupid questions. I think maybe the thought that I am missing races and fun driving the car is making it worse.

zx2cow12

Try contacting Peter Florence Peter@FirstFives.org, he helped me with a problem i encountered and got it fixed right away.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Going to ask again, anyone from the St. Louis area who has done a MS2xtra that would be wiling to help me try to get mine going. Not getting any tach indication. I have trace all the wiring in the car and everything goes to the right pins on the squirt. I traced out those leads from the DB37 to the appropriate locations on the board. I also went back and traced back the entire added VR circuit with my ohm meter and the only thing slightly different is that I have pin 14 on the LM1815 going directly to ground and I saw where that was recomended in another thread.

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

A friend did an ms2 setup and could not get any tack signal he ended up having to use some other type of shielded cables to solve the problem if im not mistaking. he is out of town for 2 weeks but il let you know if that what it was the next timei talk to him

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

yea, you need shielded cables for the CAS signals; I was able to re-use the ones in the stock harness (FC) since mine were still in pretty good shape. What engine are you trying to put this on? What version of MS, and what code variant? Could you post your MSQ?

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I used the shielded cables from the DIYAUTOTUNE harness for the CAS signals. Should I get better ones?

I am using MS2 V3 board with the latest MS2extra code loaded on it 2.0.1 I think. I will post my MSQ a bit later today when I can get away from my desk to upload it.

This is going on to an 87 NA with pollution controls removed, cold air intake and racing beat road race exhaust. This is my autocross only car.

Bought the assembled board but had to redo several jumpers as it came with the IAC leads jumpered and of course I needed to have the second VR circuit built. I am also using the relay board which I also bought pre-assembled.

Does that help a bit?

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I hope I just got my msq file zipped and attached.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Helps a lot. First thing is to load one of the 2.1.0 betas on it, at the suggestion of Ken i'm using the latest release candidate which is located here:
http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/files/rc/
There were lots of sync problems with dual-wheel sensors up until some of the 2.1.0 betas, which is probably the root of your problem. All of the CPU inputs/outputs should be the same between 2.0.x and 2.1.x code variants for MS2 extra, unlike from the 1.0.x variants.

Although i've never used the DIYautotune cables, I have no reason to doubt that they are good enough, they've always seemed to be a good shop.

I dont have experience with the relay board either, but it shouldnt have anything to do with getting a proper tach signal to the MS.

You're using the 2nd VR sensor, so i'm assuming you're using a stock CAS (no ground-off teeth). If you havent already, I'd wire the LM1815 circuit as shown in H4Inf's write-up, but with pin 14 connected to ground instead of the RC circuit he shows. His write-up:
http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf
If there are minor differences in resistance/capacitance numbers between yours and his, i wouldnt worry about it, but if anything is more than an order of magnitude off, then it would probably be worthwhile to swap it out.

Give those things a shot and see how it works. The most important is definitely upgrading to 2.1.0 code, the latest RC (uploaded in that link most recently)

muythaibxr

Actually the main issue with 2.0.x wasn't with the dual wheel, rotary trailing at low revs was broken. 1.0.2 had no dual wheel issues, and the code for handling dual wheel in 2.1.0 was only changed right before RC, and people were not having issues before that; it was a change mainly because we thought it would be more robust. The main thing that cleans up the signal for us is the change on the lm1815 circuit to have a .01uF cap across G+ and G-, and grounding pin 14 on the lm1815.

So you still want to use 2.1.0, but not because of dual wheel issues; you want it because of the rotary trailing issue.

We've recently released the final 2.1.0 release as well, so I would suggest using that:

http://www.msextra.com/ms2extra/file...e_20090627.zip

Ken

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

oh, oops, my mistake. I just know that when i was trying to get mine to run on 2.0.x it was much rougher with more lost-sync issues than the most recent 2.1.0.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I will gladly try the latest 2.1.0 code. I did use the pin 14 to ground option.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I download the latest code a bit later this evening and will also put in the G+ to G- cap. Has anyone had a chance to look at the MSQ file I uploaded earlier. I strongly suspect I may have something wrong there as well.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Okay, got the latest code, lot more choices on setup for rotary settings. But still no tach signal when cranking. So I guess it is now down to I screwed something up when making the mods for the second VR circuit, or one of the other wiring mods or still have something wrong in the basic settings. That or the way the relay board gets the signals back to the ECU is messing things up. I am going to double check everything through the relay board one more time to make sure the two cas signals are getting back to the right places.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

post up your msq for 2.1.0, I dont have the proper *.ini file for 2.0.1 to look at your settings there, or at least not with any confidence that things havent been reset.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Will get my new 2.1.0 MSQ posted when I get my lunch break about noon Central time. Sure is nice to be able to work from home at times.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

ok, i'll take a look at it tonight after i get off work

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Super, thanks.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Here is my 2.1.0 msq

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Ok, i'm just going to list things as I see them:

Trigger Angle/Offset and Tooth 1 Angle: You have these set to 60* and 5* respectively. I'm not sure what effect "Trigger Angle/Offset" has that "Tooth 1 Angle" doesnt, but if your CAS is stabbed in the stock configuration, then your Tooth 1 Angle is correct. I have 0 for my Trigger Angle/Offset, but my CAS is stabbed differently, so i'm not sure if thats a change that you'll need to make

Ignition Input Capture: you have it set to "Rising Edge". As long as you have VRout wired with a jumper on the V3 board instead of VRoutinv, then this is correct.

Your problem is that within "Trigger Wheel Settings", the second trigger must be active on the rising edge every rotation of the crank, not cam as you have set. This would cause no RPM to read.

On another note, you have a bit too much spark advance in your table under full throttle unless you're planning on running 93 octane, and even then its a bit high.

muythaibxr

Trigger Angle/Offset should not be used at all, only tooth #1 angle. Timing will be way off with Trigger Angle set to anything other than 0. The further from 0 the further timing will be off.


Ken

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

The CAS is stabbed in stock location, has never been touched. I think the 60 was a default setting that I did not change, so will change that back to 0 like you have. Will make the change needed for the second trigger. Will also reduce advance table settings once I get the car to begin to start as I don't think I will be going full throttle until a get a lot of other tweaking done. Hope to be able to give a big thumbs up later.

Thanks, thanks, and thanks again. Keeping my fingers crossed.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

Well still no RPM. Now have what might prove to be a dumb question. Should I have shielded leads on both the + and - Sides of each of the CAS lead pairs. I used normal wire on the - leads since they were going to ground and since the shielded wire in the DYI Cable bundle was only single lead. Also the relay board grounds the pin that the NE- lead connects to at the DB37 connector on the relay board to a large ground bus that then goes to the big engine ground lead heading directly to the block. Should I try bypassing the relay board with my CAS leads and run straight to the MS2 DB37 connector.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

all four cables from the CAS should be shielded. I'd imagine that you'd be getting some sort of tach signal if you only shielded the + cables, but itd be very rough. Do you have access to an oscilloscope? If not, you can use the microphone input on your computer with some software and use that as one. You can then pull the CAS out of the car and spin it with a drill, checking the output of the LM1815N for second trigger, as well as the primary wheel circuitry (although the problems are almost always with the secondary trigger).

Run the G- wire all the way to the LM1815 circuit and connect it to ground there, just to preserve the "balanced pair" of VR signal cables.

Make sure that the output of the LM1815 is connected to JS10, and doublecheck the continuity of all your connections on the board. A complete lack of RPM kind of implies that its not a noise issue, its something disconnected, connected wrong, or settings problem.

bschnard

iTrader: (4)

I have a spare CAS that I can use to test with outside of the car as well as a Jimstim, but don't know how to set up the Jimstim for testing. I can get shielded cable for all 4 wires and rerun straight to the megasquirt completely bypassing the relay board. I will also ground the shielding for added measure.

I have to find my tool for pulling the pins from the DB37 cable that plugs in to the MS so that I can tie the CAS leads directly into that plug. It may be a day or two before I get the new cable. In the mean time I will go back over everything on the MS itself.

I used the wiring layouts in at this link for setting up the MS http://stuff.pw.cx/Megasquirt%20MS2%...azda%20CAS.pdf so is there anything that I need to change from this? Otherwise I will use that for my checklist when rechecking everything.

muythaibxr

The shielding must only be grounded on one side, or you might as well not have it. If it's not grounded at all, it's the same as not having it as well.

I have to find my tool for pulling the pins from the DB37 cable that plugs in to the MS so that I can tie the CAS leads directly into that plug. It may be a day or two before I get the new cable. In the mean time I will go back over everything on the MS itself.

Ken