spent most of today analyzing data to try and figure out the constants for my injectors. i hate algebra, but i hope what little bit that i paid attention to 25 years ago will pay off in the morning.
curruently, car idles with settings of req fuel 10/5, 4 squirts, 2 injectors, ve=6. after hours of looking at data, reverse formulating PW's, VEs, MAP's, REQ Fuel, E's IOT's; my 12a turbo with 2 rc engineering injectors and 2 others that ma be blue; i have determined that i need 4.2/4.2, 1 squirt, 4 injectors, ve=29. hopefully i can build a table from there.
between shampooing carpets, burning leaves, brewing beer, and cutting downed trees up; i think i have a full day tomorrow

 

I would use 2 squirts not 1 or 4... 4 will be difficult to tune at low load due to small pulse-widths, and 1 will give you laggy throttle response.

Ken

 

I thought you basically needed 4 squirts/cycle, since at least for MS1 & MS2 you don't have independent control of the primaries, and for every 2 revs of the crank (1 cycle), you have 4 induction events (each rotor one intake/rev * 2 rotors * 2 revs/cyc = 4 squirts/cyc) per cycle, so to be evenly distributing the fuel to each rotor you should use the same number of squirts per cycle. Now, if the rotors were inducting at the same time, then you could get by with 2, but they arent.

I have noticed that running 4/cyc smoothed out the engine at low loads, & especially the variation of AFR since each induction was getting more fuel.

As for your question, I wouldn't specify 4 injectors, since you're only supposed to count the 2 primaries if you're running them staged. Otherwise, yes, you can calculate an approximate opening time based off of two points & going backwards through the equations in the MS.

 

In my experience I have had far smoother running with 2 squirts per cycle. On my engine when I tried 4, the pw would be too close to the opening time, and well into the non-linear operation area of the injectors. This lead to popping and difficult tuning in the low kPa parts of the map. I have run every rotary I have tuned this way and have had good results.

Ken

 

I can not get this thing to run with 1 or 2 squirts. I would like to get the 2 squirt setup running. It fires off and over the course of 5 seconds it revs to 1700 and then tapers off. I can't catch it with the throttle to make any running adjustments. As soon as I touch the pedal, it dies.
I am running the 2.891 code if anybody has any thoughts.

 

Finally, reqfuel 12 and a ve of 80. idling at 1500-1700. Developed a water leak. All 4 injectors are firing on a single on a single table. Have it in injection control as 2 injectors.

 

You said that this was a 12a turbo? Any porting done to it, or other major mods that would require such a high idle or firing all 4 injectors at once? Typically, we (and Mazda) only fire the primary injectors (ones mounted in the middle iron) at lower speeds & loads, and turn on the secondaries only when the primaries can't deliver enough fuel. You shouldn't be firing all at once when trying to idle

 

I guess this means I need to check my fuel pressure or yank the injectors to see if they are flowing what they are supposed to.
Datalog shows running at 1700-1800 rpm with a pw of 1.86 up to 2.01

 

As far as I know, there has not been any porting. The first running setup idled with reqfuel10/5 4 squirts and ve of 7. It was a nice smooth 750rpm idle which tells me no porting.

 

Do you have staged injection turned on, the primary injectors wired to inj1 output and the secondaries wired to inj2 output?

 

I believe v2.891 just has single and dual table options. I currently have the single table on. If I went with the two table option, wouldn't I need to run the reqfuel way up or have a ve in the 150 range based on my current setup?
I am at the fire station tomorrow, so I do not get to mess with the car until Wednesday. I am going to check my fuel pressure on the regulator side. I have a 100psi pump with adjustable regulator. I wish I knew the specs on the primaries. I may pull the injectors out to see if they are flowing what they are rated. The primaries are blue, so I am assuming that they are 720cc. The secondaries are RC Engineering 700cc.

 

gfd263: You need to put ms2/extra on there. The standard code does not have any form of rotary engine support.

Ken

 

Alright then, there's the problem...

 

Not good!!! Pulled the secondary fuel rail today. At first and only glance, I saw what look like ocean barnacles clung to the AN threads. Fuel pressure was at 70 static downstream from the regulator. This thing is all screwed up. I will clean the injectors, flush the fuel tank and lines in the morning. I may put a second filter in at the regulator in addition to replacing the filter before the pump.
Thanks for the MS extra hint. I hope to have an update later this week.

 

Got it taken apart. Nothing but nastiness. Pulled looked and felt like a dark brown sticky booger that was about the size of an english pea off of one injectors. Pictures of the mess will be in a new thread next week. Thanks for everybody's input. I may need it again soon.

 

You will want ms2/extra on there to do ignition (trailing) and staged injection.

Ken

 

Does MS2/Extra support trailing ignition with a spare port, or do I need to build that other circuit in the proto area?

 

That 'other circuit' has nothing to do with trailing ignition. It is used to condition the signal from the CAS's G sensor. The Ne signal is conditioned by the circuit on pin 24 assuming you built your v3 board correctly. This lets you trigger on the stock CAS's signals.

All you need for trailing (and leading) is to put a pullup resistor on each LED from +5v to the LED - lead, then run a wire from each of those to a spare pin on the db37. D14 is leading, D15 is trailing coil select, and D16 is trailing IGt.

This is all assuming of course a stock 2nd gen rx7 ignition system.

Ken

 

Also, even if you aren't using a stock 2nd gen ignition system, ms2/extra also supports staged injection. That will let you tune using 2 injectors for light load and low rpm and then switch to all 4 when you need them. It only uses 1 VE table as well.

Ken

 

Well, I have the car using a VE table starting at 30. Req fuel is at 19.6. Should not be that high after backflushing the injectors. All injectors are firing according to the stethoscope.

Can I get any help with the Acceleration Wizard while I try to figure out the other issues. Slow application of throttle says my VE is very close. With the turbo, I am thinking more MAP. Any thoughts on Map based values and rates to start with. I have really screwed those up with my first attempts.

 

Did you switch to ms2/extra and staged injection?

Ken

 

Worked on it today. Is ver 2.1.0 the one to go with?

 

never mind on that. followed your link to the zip file

 

I got the new firmware in late yesterday. Now I need to finish setting everything up in TunerStuio.