Hey guys.

Tried to start the 7 up today and ran into problems. At the end of the explenation I will attach the msq's used and a data log for your viewing. The car started at 1 point. We were doing a flood clear and while doing so the car started and ran for a good 3 min or so.

The first thing that that was odd to us was that at the beguining the tps would not go below 34%. A while later we disconected the MS and conected it again and it read 0 with the pedal off and 98 at wot. The car gets a tach signal and it reads from 150 to 350 rpm while its cranking. We went through 1 to13 on the cranck settings, it seems to like 6.5 the best but no joy. We are getting fuel and and spark, the car started and ran at one point. Now we are out of ideas.

We were reading and it says that for idle controll the board needs some additional stuff, I have a PnP unit, so I don't know if it has this capability or not. Any help would be much appritiated.

 

No one? Maybe a bit more info will help. the car is a 1988 turbo II. It has 550 primiray injectors and 750 secondaries. Runing stock i/c, hybrid s5 turbo, 3" exhaust, and still has the AFM in place so it will power the fuel pump (this will be taken out once the car is runing) and that is about it.

 

Do you have one of the Zeal PnP units?

If so, the default settings that came with it should start your car just fine (although quite rich).

If you have one of our PnP units, the idle control should also work fine.

 

Yes, I have one of the Zeal plug and play units. I don't know why it's not starting up. Could you take a look at the msq that I posted and see if anything is incorrect please.
Thanx

Sergio

 

If you're not using the settings we sent with it, start there.

However, tofuball should be able to send you his T2 settings that he's made a lot of progress on recently, those might help you.

The main thing to check if you can't start with his settings is the CAS alignment. It has to be close to stock to work with our settings.

Also, you may need to clean up your stock harness a bit... for example, having clean, good grounds makes a huge difference.

Tofuball was getting the same sort of behavior as you, then he cleaned up his grounds, and now the car starts up fine. (A little slow when cold, but still starts up and runs).

 

Talked to my tuner today, and he said that we were using everything that came with the units cd. So I was wrong about and updated firmwere. We used what was on the cd.


On megatune it says that timing is 4 btdc, i guess I need to go and get a timing light and make sure that it's set correctly. (the car starts perfect on stock computer)

I will check this, i am getting good tack signal, so I thought that we should be ok with the grounds. What do you think?

 

Sergio,

Give me a call and I'll let you use my timing light.

 

I will give you a call tonight, how are things

 

Well, everybody is home now, so it should be getting real noisy any time now...

 

Every one of our plug 'n play units started a car before we sent it...

If your tach is not steady at around 300 rpms when cranking, you have noise issues, which can make it hard to start...

Also, between each start attempt, floor the pedal to flood clear.

Finally, the settings on the CD are for an NA, so the cranking pulse widths might be a bit rich.

I'll have tofuball send you his settings as well, or you can PM him to ask for them.

Also, when you flood clear, make sure the pulse width actually goes to 0.

Ken

 

I am not douting this at all. It was runing on the car previus to mine.

What could be the cause of this? Bad grounds?

I will do this from now on.

Should I reduce this be a certain amount % wise?

Thanx for your help Ken, hopefully we can get the car running soon

Sergio

 

We tried both the NA and turbo map from tofuball without changes. We also tried starting with each one and changin the cranking injector pw's and verified that the logger was using those pw's. We always get mid 300's for cranking rpm while cranking. The injector pw definitely goes to zero when flood-clearing. Very weird that is doesn't start, it seemed like more of a fluke when it started the first time because it was hard to start in the first place.

Is there a place where you can set the cranking ignition timing? Perhaps that could use some tweaking....

 

On crank with our settings, the timing will be around 5 deg BTDC. We are using trigger return mode because it results in more consistant timing. However, if you want to try time-based and adjust the cranking advance, you can do that as well.

I strongly recommend that you double/triple check the CAS alignment. Hard starting is often caused by the CAS being aligned wrong. Several times I've had a car be really hard to start, then after I adjust the CAS, it starts right up. Once you get it started up, you can set the fixed angle to -5, and adjust the CAS using a timing light.

Also, if you flooded the engine a couple of times, and weren't flood-clearing between unsuccessful starts, you may have fouled the plugs. It's pretty easy to do. The best way to ensure that your engine is completely clear is to unplug the MS, pull out the spark plugs (and disable trailing spark), and then crank with the plugs out... You'll see a fine mist come out for a while. When it stops, the engine is not flooded anymore. Then you can clean your plugs and reinstall them, or replace them with new plugs (better).

Finally, make sure you're getting spark on leading while cranking.

Ken

 

Sounds good, we will try to verify the CAS alignment... the trick is doing it without being able to start the car on the MS.

I am sure we flooded the engine a couple times attempting to start it. We were just doing the flood-clear before most starts, but that's not a bad idea either. The thing that really got us was the fact that the car would start right up as soon as we put in the stock ecu. I really had to tweak the cranking duty cycle for the initial cold start (it wanted a lot more fuel). I am thinking that evern though this box was on a na 7 last, perhaps we need to upgrade the firmware and run easytherm. It was snowing outside and the IAT and ECT temps were reading around 70.

We will check to verify leading spark on cranking.

Another thing I noticed, the one time we got the car running, the idle was really high. It appeared that the MS had the idle control output stuff disabled because the ield target fields were greyed out. I apologize if this question is out of ignorance of the MS, but I'm assuming that because the MS box requires an upgraded component to handle IAC output, the default configuration is to disable it. Can anyone enlignten me as to how to enable idle control?

 

Servion, good to see you in here, you will probably ask smarter and better question than me on this problem. For everyone else, My friend Servion is the person who will be tuning my 7. His new to MS and RX-7 but has extensive tuning experience on piston engines, and now trying to get into the dark side.

Sergio

 

We have the proper setup in that box to control the BAC valve. So the settings just need set up for it.

I didn't know your coolant and air temperature sensors were reading the wrong temperatures. That will definitely have an effect as well.

Another thing I sometimes do to get the car to fire up if it's being stubborn on the first try is I disable flood clear by setting the flood clear setting to 255, then I hold the throttle partially open while cranking. Often that's enough to get it running so I can check timing and other things that are hard to check while cranking, and then usually after I check/set those things, the car starts up a lot better.

 

You get it figured out yet? Still need a timing light?

 

I wasnt able to do anything this weekend, got people over. I will try today and see if I can do the grounds. Don't know yet on the timing light.