CrazyJason

ms2ne v3.1 Using the latest Tunerstudio version.

V3.57 board with Zeal daughter card running the 2nd VR signal. Hooked up spare 2 and 3 to the Zeal card and the wiring to the CAS is correct. I noticed that the zeal card actually doesnt ground pin 14 so I did it.

Stock port, s5 NA, 680 primary injectors, 550 secondary, Both low Imp. No resistor pack installed in the wiring.


Grounds to the engine block, to the chassis and to the battery all double checked and tight.

Re-flashed the MS with the firmware again and followed Aarons write up on how set up the what i could in tuner studio. Followed his guide for installing to.

I get great signal from the CAS and it says it stays in sync at ~230 rpm while cranking.

I am having problems with getting this to fire off the injectors. With Inj1 and 2 wire cut, I can ground them and they spray fuel. and then go to start and the engine studders and almost catches.

I think I have narrowed it down to something being wrong inside the board. But I havent the slightest idea of where to start. I am getting a hold of a stimulator soon but if anybody has any ideas on where to start to figure it out lemme know.

Ive attached a screen shot of the CAS signal and an MSQ incase I missed something.

Thanks,
Jason

CrazyJason

I mean V3.0 board. Not V3.57...

muythaibxr

Tach input looks fine, So you should double check all components, diode directions, etc in the inj driver circuits. Also, you might want to mess with the injector PWM settings a bit.

Ken

CrazyJason

Ok, So I got to some testing today and found out I may have fried my daughter card. Step 10 of the trouble shooting guide basically says that if I have outputs all the way to pin 7 ( INJ1) and pin 5 (INJ2) of component U4, and I have no outputs from pin 21 (PMW0-1) and pin 22 (PMW1-1) of the daughter card, Then I have to assume that because everything after U4 is working correctly, But U1 is not sending the signal, Then it must be a problem with U1.

I'm going to be double checking that I did this test correctly, But is my logic sound?


And just to be clear I have checked my diode directions and checked that the components are the correct ones. Except I gotta check the polarity of C14.

Gokou104

Did you check the wiring from the daughter card to the main board???

CrazyJason

No I didn't. Are you referring to the socket at which the daughter board mounts to the main PCB 3.0? Because I haven't checked that either. I will Sunday.

CrazyJason

So I got to even more testing. Things I learned today.

Check the orientation of the U1. Because the pin out is #1 being bottom right pin.

Now that I checked that properly, I have my LED test light made and I'm checking for flashes at pin 21. It flashes. The daughter card is working fine.

Check U4 again and check that pin 2 ( Input A) and pin 4 ( Input B) are getting the signal. And it is.

Check that pin 3 ( VSS ) goes to ground. Correct.

The only problem with me checking pin4, Is I dont know what VCC is or the path at which V12 begins at. And I don't know what V12 is.

http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/v3pcb_4.gif

I have a CLA360-ND, Its the updated replacement for U4 and its coming from Digikey, but I have a feeling I should have ordered D3 as well.

CrazyJason

Did some digging on CLA360-ND, and the spec sheet says that pin 6, AKA VCC is actually the voltage that it requires to power up U4. So I think I do need another D3.

CrazyJason

Replaced the U4 and D3 and got her to start shooting fuel. Win!

Tried to start her but when she gets close to starting she gives out. It does its helicopter almost start up and then dies out. I think my timing is off but I'll find out this weekend.

Will it matter that I got an S5 NA engine and running Aarons base timing map?

And I read through his write up again and came across the "cranking advance" bit. If I retard the timing, will it be easier or harder to start? Assuming that I stabbed the CAS correctly that is.

muythaibxr

As for the cranking timing, what you need to do to get it to start depends on what the timing is currently.

I usually use 0 degrees for cranking timing.

Also, something else I've always found helpful when having trouble getting an engine to fire the first time is to make use of flood clear mode after each failed start attempt. This is especially helpful on a rotary engine as it will allow you to tell whether your previous start attempt failed b/c of too much or too little fuel. If it starts in flood clear, you were injecting too much (in most cases).

Ken

CrazyJason

That makes perfect sense. Wish me luck this weekend! And hopefully I won't be posting here anymore.

CrazyJason

Okay, Back to getting this pig started. I got her started earlier today but it stumbled and rocked back and forth hard. I figured the timing was way off or something wasnt firing. So I hooked up my timing light at idle and L1 didnt seem to fire very often and L2 fired pretty consistantly and constantly.

L1 and L2 spark at the exact same time because its waste spark right?

Anyway, I pulled out all of the plugs and rested them on the engine block and I see that L1 L2 and T1 are all firing at the exact same time. But there is no spark on T2.

Also, I've tried checking my timing while it ran and the mark was nowhere to be found. At all...

So it ran for a bit, and I may have monkeyed around with the timing and now it doesn't start.

My settings for the Rotary mode in Tuner Studio are,
FC mode on
trailing toggle not allowed
RX8 mode off

I checked all my coil wiring and checked if i had somehow bridged those pins and they are not. Ive checked if my trailing coil was mis-wired and that may have been the case. At the trailing coil is the stock 4 pin connector. And with that connector is a red, black, tan-ish white, and a faded yellow. I am connected to the tan-ish white for the trailing toggle.

Its fustrating but at least I have heard her fire in the first time in almost a year. Any hints to what may have gone wrong is much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jason

CrazyJason

Some other diagnosis info that I have are;
all 3 LED's come on when I turn the key, Cranking the middle one blinks and the other two blink at the same time. The MS stays in sync and the CAS signal has not changed.
And when I said rocked back and forth, I mean it felt like it was running on one rotor...

CrazyJason

and I just switched the coils with known good ones and that did not do the trick.

muythaibxr

Are you sure you wired the coil-select signal to the trailing ignitor properly?

Ken

CrazyJason

Yeah. I re-wired it properly now. I was wired into the tach instead of the toggle.

For future reference and anybody searching this. Trailing toggle is Br/y on the harness side in an S4.

Thats fixed now. But whats got me stumped now is the fact that my freaking signal from the CAS is quite erratic. Like it up and went to lunch and came back drunk. Ive attached a clip of the composite log again to show you what I mean.

But on the off chance that somehow something went wrong in my sheilded 4 wire bunch, Out of shear sanity I went ahead and re-did that wiring. Now I have peace of mind that yes, I can once again wire.

I also hooked up the VR1 into the zeal board to check U6 is working correctly on the MSv3 board. And as far as I can tell, the signal is still the exact same signal while using the zeal boards VR circuit. And I used a known good CAS to test my wiring.

I have also tried re-adjusting the "zero crossing" and "hysteresis" pots.

Anyway, while studying the signal circuit. The only solution I have come to is to order the entire "VRIN" circuit and replace everything in there. I'll find out when my order comes from Digikey.

muythaibxr

How did you populate the zeal board? Did you jumper pin 14 to ground?

Ken

CrazyJason

Yes, I eventually traced the zeal board and realized that pin14 was not grounded and did so. S12 is the 12v power, 5V and ground are from the test area.

I played some diagnostic hero over the weekend and hooked up the lab scope to every known part up to, and leaving the daughter card. And I believe the daughter card is hooped. I get signals from U7 pin 7 (the inverted signal) all the way to pin 14 (IRQ-1) of the daughter card. Im pretty sure pin 14 is the place where U7 sends its signal. I get a clean signal from the CAS to the zeal board. And a clean signal from the CAS to U7's input. The daughter card is gettings its 5V, 12V and great ground. I am not getting the outputs from pins 7, 8, and 9.

I think I may have crossed two solder joints with the clip I was using with the scope and it may have popped the card.

muythaibxr

pin 14 isn't the pin that the output comes out of, pin 14 is an input pin to determine if the output pulses should be of a specific width or if the chip should just be in zero-crossing mode.

I recommend grounding pin 14 to put the chip in zero-crossing mode as that removes the chance for a lot of noise.

The kit should've come with a second lm1815, you could probably swap that in place on the zeal card.

Ken