immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

ok i need to start a new thread on this one i think.
heres how this starts.
we built the ms and all systems are go except for the rpm signal.
so we start trouble shooting the second vr2 signal and found some faults and corrected them unfortunately one of the probs caused the lm1815 to short out (so we think) so i overnight a the chip and re rebuilt the circuit on a bred board, all we get is a mere what looks like 600 rpm (in the middle of the first yellow bar. then drops and wont see any cranking signal untill i power down the ms and power it back up. then the same thing happens, could there be some thing wrong with my settings causing it to act like this?
thanks for the help. il see if i cant pm aaron to scope the bread board so we can figure this out its driving me nuts!


forgot to add we got those results with and with out the extra capacitor to clean up the noise

muythaibxr

I'll take a look tonight when I am not at work.

On the lm1815, did you ground pin 14? Did you use a .01uF cap across G+ and G-?

Ken

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

yeppers doubled checked it today all looks well, when cranking it only shows up as 200 rpm, one thing we noticed that was odd was the rpm seamed to be counting up in the data log instead of showing an rpm il post it tonight once i get off work. now i did notice last night that we did not have a ground on pin #2 so i installed one i hope that did not cause yet an other chip to fry....

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

well i was reading in an old ms post of some one having a no spark prob and he was using the stock ecu to trigger the on off signal. if i was to use the stock 4 wires and re connect them to the ecu then run the tach signal out put from the stock S5 ecu to the ms would that eliminate the VR2 prob and would this theory work ??

il have some supper then il post a pic of the Bread board with the second VR2 so u you guys can see if theres something odd with it

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

ok so heres the pic of the bread board

opss i see a prob just looking at this now.... my inputs and out puts are on the same line....?
never mind re tested and cheched its all good

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

well im at a lost, i have tryed all i can think of, searched still nothing seams to help... i pulled the cas out and cranked the cas by hand and with a drill and it wont see any readings any more, the schreen is red so its not getting any type of signal wtf man im so depressed atm. i wish i just had my stock buggy S5 ecu running 14.02

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Martin, we'll get it sorted out, we just need a bit more time. Atleast tomorrow after the meet I'm free so I can take another look at things.

muythaibxr

Yeah, without looking at it in person and seeing what you've done, it's going to be hard to debug this remotely.

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

well as it turns out...... if you can believe........the cap that is supposed to help remove noise was causing the cas to not give enough input to trigger the squirt.
thanks to Aaroncakes edvice on downloading a sound card oscilloscope software we where able to scope out "no pun entneded) our prob
now we just need to flip around my LED's dang diodes :P stopping my coils from firing

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

Now who's the smartass that put those LED's backwards? But ya very insteresting that adding a capacitor between the G+ and the ground off the squirt produced a square wave on the scope (went from about -.45V to positive .45V) I though maybe it was a bad capacitor so I tried 2 more and still the same thing. Very very odd to me. Same would happen by putting the capacitor between the 5V and ground on the squirt. The capacitor for reference was a 0.1uF .




















"Cough" Me" Cough" .....lol (about the LED's that is)

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

LEDs were backwards!? That explains no LEDs on the 'Stim but was something I didn't even consider checking.

muythaibxr

As far as the cap goes, I've never had an issue. Are you sure you didn't put one in that's too big/small?

Also, are you sure the sensor gap in your CAS is right?

I put that cap in every one of my installs, and have never had an issue.

Ken

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

who knows. now we fixed the LED's and turn the cas by hand
all is well it sparks and injectors are firing. stab the cas and..... crack the car.... no rpm. so we pulled out the sound card scop and there little to no movement on the scop from the cas wire.... we are charging the battery hoping its just a power prob. we did put the cap back on and still no spark from when cranking by starter. i can make the car spak by hand while barely turning the cas. i wounder whats going on now lol

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

well we downloaded an other scop prog as the on we were using was doing some odd things. looks like we have loads of noise causing the cas not to fire the vr2 system when the engine is cranking but adding that cap reduces the wave length so much its not allowing the vr2 to see an input, so we figure we might as well get rid of the bread board and solder the vr2 now that we know it works, and leave the pins out for the extra cap just encase we need it later. we will try to put the ms in its case and hopefully the nose we where seeing was from the bread boad sitting away from the ms...

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

just for the record, the cap says 104k. We're going to put everything on the MS proto board now and hope that enclosing the whole system could help a bit perhaps.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

From our conversation on Friday, it seems that the main 12V feed from the battery goes to the starter, and then to the rest of the car?

That could be the very issue if the starter is noisy. Combine that with the voltage drop from this arrangement and it could prevent the car from starting.

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

i was thinking of that. now i know this it was not the correct way of testing things but i used my jumper cables to power up the fuse block from the battery and it seamed to have made no difference but i do agree with you. it dose drop voltage to the rest of the car. il install that cable like you where talking about and see if any thing changes

muythaibxr

That could be the problem... it's got 10x too much capacitance. The one I use says 103. (.01uF)

Ken

dj55b

iTrader: (2)

hmmm... I'm almost 100% sure that I have a 104k in my car. The guide that H4inf also says 104k.

muythaibxr

I've always said .01uF capacitor. That is 103. That guide is incorrect if it says 104k.

Ken

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

ok so we installed the 103 capacitor and i cant see any signal from the vr2 spining by hand remove the cap and all is well, prob the cpu input (vr2 out put) i can see some activity and its got an even wave paturn on it but not like a digital one. this is just a thought but could i use a smaller cap to just remove that little bit of noise, as it seams that the 103 is just taking out to much?

Edit: now i did fix my power cable going to the stater i have a 4 GA wire to the start from the battery then a 4 Ga going to the main fuse block (i should add that im using a power shutoff switch for the battery so both starter and fuse block are tied on that terminal is that ok?)

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

im going to un hook my starter power and use a diffrent car to power it up. and un hook my alternaor and see if i can get it to wire then i know its noise for sure (well i know its noise but...)

Edit:
same problem nothing changed with alternator not spinning and using booster cables to to the start from the battery bypassing my main power cut off switch, used an other car to power up the start same thing... so i think i need a smaller capacitor to just filter out that little bit of noise, the other thing i think could help is to move the magnetic pickup close but the car use to run fine the way it is now (I dont want to add an other thing to this equation but if it help amplifies the signal so that i can use the cap to clean out the nose then... it might be worth it ?)

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

well heres an update. i installed 2 more grounds one from the battery to then bellhouseing, one from the right strut tower to the top right of the bellhousing. and i set the magnitic pickup closer from 305 to something like 275 or 250 or something... any ways still same thing still can use a cap and still wont see any rpm while caking with start. but i do see rpm while turning the cas by hand and loads of great spark! this might just be a long shot but dj55b added his cap on the out side of the db37 harness as his ms was built before the wright up. so he just plumbed it in to the cas input then to ground before the ms. would it matter if the cap was on the ms board or out and away from the circuit

muythaibxr

How is your lm1815 built? Did you ground pin 14 on it?

Ken

immanuel__7

iTrader: (8)

il have a look when i get home, should it be grounded?