muythaibxr

Ahh, ok, that sounds like it's starting to catch once it jumps up.

If it's a bit hard to start and its backfiring with 11,1,5,7 settings, most likely the problem there is just CAS adjustment, which can be checked once you start the engine by setting "fixed timing" to "-5" and then adjusting the CAS until the yellow mark on the e-shaft pulley lines up.

Once you get it right, you can set fixed timing back to -10

57bronco

The reason I asked, after I unplugged it the rx7 started cranking with 11,1,5,7, setting.
What was the correct deg to set for the 11,1,5,7 setting, 60-65 deg!

muythaibxr

it was 65 deg, with a cranking angle of 5 deg (with trigger return). If you use time-based cranking, you can use 0 deg as the cranking timing.

muythaibxr

also, that's good news about the variable resistor. I wonder if there's anything else in your engine bay that's causing oddness like that.

Do put that restrictor in your MAP line though, as that is most likely part of what's causing your engine to run funny.

57bronco

I added the restrictor, changed timing to 65 Deg., time-base cranking and 0 deg crank timing. This is the latest datalog.

muythaibxr

WOW! that looks a LOT better... did it run better?

The tach noise still seems to be there, but everything else looks a lot better..

If you have a wideband (looks like you do) you should hook up to that, and set it to do some averaging, or filtering... I know the LC1 can do this, but I don't remember the exact steps to do it. (I use techedge for most of my stuff).

Ken

57bronco

She's running a bit rich or it may be the trans fluid I ran down the OMP vacuum hose, there is some smoke. I haven't set the timing yet, and haven't got her to idle yet. But things are getting better. I put a set of Autolites in until things get close and then I'll put some good plugs in; that should help too.

muythaibxr

yeah, I think once you set the timing and put in some better plugs it'll be good. The averaging on the wideband I was suggesting was just because your AFR look really jumpy...

Once you've got all that stuff taken care of, we should be able to figure out what's going on with that tach signal.

57bronco

I made a few changes to my msq, but it runs a little rough. The only way I could get it to idle was to pull the idle adjustment screw out of the center of the intake. And I can’t get it to run on the normal 11, 1, 5, 7.

muythaibxr

For the holding idle thing... did you ever set the timing? Set fixed angle to -5, then turn the CAS until the yellow mark on the crank pulley lines up. Not having this set can cause the trouble holding idle.

Looking at the datalog, it appears that the same problems are there from the last time we talked... your wideband controller still isn't doing any averaging, and we still have a little bit of noise on the CAS signals.

We're going to try to take care of one problem at a time, so the first thing I'd like you to do, to try to get rid of the idling problem, is verify your timing....

If the timing is not right, you will have to adjust the idle screw very far out to get the car to hold idle.

Next I'd like you to set up some sort of averaging on your Wideband O2 controller. then we can at least tell the exact values it's giving.

Finally, we'll figure out that noise issue, if we can't find the cause, we'll at least find a way to filter it. It sounds like there's a ground loop somewhere in the harness though., as that's the only thing that's ever affected us. There are some other things I can walk you through doing to the MS that may help with noise... no soldering iron required, just a small flatheaded screwdriver (very small).

Ken

57bronco

Well I got the timing set, but in order to do so I had to advance the CAS by two teeth on the gear of the CAS. And it won’t idle unless I unplug a vacuum hose from the intake no matter what I do with the CAS. It is running on 11, 1, 5, 7 now.

muythaibxr

And you did this with the "Fixed Angle" set to -5?

If so, once timing is set, change "Fixed Angle" back to -10. This will cause the MS to start using the map for timing again, and should advance the timing a bit.

It's odd that it doesn't want to idle at -5 timing though. It's good that it's running with 11,1,5,7 settings now though.

Ken

muythaibxr

Hey, also, is your engine NA or turbo. You might have told me once but I can't remember. I'm going to send you an msq to try. With our msq, fuel should be correct, which should help your idle. I just tested our NA map last night on 5 different megasquirts and the car idled so smooth that the engine didn't move at all... just the pulleys.

Ken

57bronco

It's an NA.
thanks

57bronco

With new MSQ Data log. Haven’t found how to do averaging on the LC1 yet.

muythaibxr

That certainly looks like the best yet...

Although it looks like it's running quite a bit richer than it did on our test car at idle.

On the test car it was running right around 12:1, but in your log it looks like around 10:1. However, it looks like you were still on warmup enrichment during that time, so it might just be that warmup enrichment was too high.

It looks like the higher you rev, the worse the noise issue gets, so I'm wondering if your harness has a short somewhere causing these issues... maybe causing the shielding on the VR signals to do nothing.

I had James (jsmcortina, one of the original authors of the firmware you're using) take a look at the log as well and he noticed a few other things that point towards a bad harness:

1) Your TPS signal is pegged at 100%... That could be a bad TPS, missing TPS, or short in the harness... This also explains the lean spikes you get every time you step on the throttle... the TPS isn't working, so you don't get any TPS accel enrichment. I looked back at earlier posts in this thread, and don't see anything about a missing TPS.
2) the ms1/extra firmware actually tracks RPMs in two different ways, using 2 different calculations. In a car where everything is working properly, these should match closely... The datalog you sent shows odd differences, sometimes of up to 1200 rpms between the RPM and RPM/100 variables.
3) The MAT signal increases and decreases seem to correspond with increases and decreases in RPM. This usually points to a grounding issue, although for really bad ground issues, this kind of correlation can be seen for CLT and other signals as well.

Assuming you still actually have a TPS installed, I'm betting if you test the TPS and find that it's working right, then fixing what ever's keeping the MS from seeing that signal will fix your problems.

Also, if you'd like to give me a call we can talk about this more. I'm just not going to be around a computer that much today, but I'd still like to continue helping.

Ken

57bronco

I wanted to drive the s4 for a while, so I pulled the ms out. I re-stabbed the cas to the oem position and put the oem computer and afm back in , runs great. The ms is a little bit temperamental.

muythaibxr

I identified a few problems in my last post.

Did you ever try fixing those first? Did you verify operation of your TPS? The MS with the settings I sent to you is not going to work right without a good TPS signal, and I definitely saw problems related to that. I don't know what the stock ECU does without a TPS signal but it's probably not using that for Accel enrichments.

The stock ECU most likely doesn't use the TPS for much if it's running fine with the signal from the TPS not working.

As far as the tach noise goes, if you've checked your grounds (and you said you did), the stock ECU probably does more filtering than the MS does by default. If you like I can take the unit back and try to make it more immune to your noise problem, but that still won't fix the problem you're having with the TPS. That's going to require some harness debugging or a new TPS.

I'll be the first to admit that if your harness is marginal, the MS won't work very well with it.

Tofuball

Nah, the stock ECU runs way richer then most people tune their maps, so the bad TPS is less noticeable.

Leaner running engines show marginal behavior more then ones that run rich, thats one of the reasons manufacturers always tune their maps on the rich side.


Also, the stock ECU will dump in more fuel when it sees a bad TPS or bad TPS signal. The MegaSquirt just can't handle a bad TPS signal. Either replace your TPS\wiring or use MAPdot.

57bronco

I replaced the TPS.

muythaibxr

did you check your datalog to be sure you were getting a signal from it? The problem may not have been with the TPS, but the wiring.

Ken

57bronco

Yes, I was getting a signal. I think it goes back to 20 year old wiring.
I was wondering if I could have you check out the ms, to make sure I haven’t done something to it, and if you could re-flash it?

muythaibxr

Sure. Send it back to me. I'll send you the address in a PM.

I'll take it, make sure it starts my car, reflash with the latest firmware, etc...

I can even try to make it more immune to noise, although you are right about the 20 year old wiring, and there's only so much I can do to combat that.

Keep in mind that even if you replaced the TPS and you were getting a signal, the tune we sent it with was our base tune. We actually tuned with the AFM in place as well, which will affect the amount of air getting in. On an engine without the AFM, you'll be running leaner than we will because of the better airflow (although I have no idea how much leaner).

The engine will run alright with that, but often more tuning is necessary. I don't know if you mentioned this before, but is this engine mechanically stock? Stock intake? Exhaust manifold? Catalytic converters?

Ken