custom13B

Well I built and installed a v3 mega squirt and actually had the car running once for about 1 hour since then cant get it restarted. Im using the v3 board with the hc908 chip 2.25b514 version of megatune and its compatible version of extra for spark. Both leading and trailing worked fine when it ran the one time. I used all the settings in the FAQ. I did readjust the req fuel per muy's suggestion as I have larger injectors. To readjust the req fuel I entered 2600 cc's for the enige being a 13b and 720cc's for the injectors and it calculated a req fuel of 6.4. I adjusted the cranking pulse width many times its currently set at 9.0ms. I have tried many numbers for the CPW. I have double checked the CAS position and its exactly where it should be and where it was when the engine last ran so I dont think thats my problem. I am getting a RPM signal when cranking so my LM1815 ckt is working as it was designed. Everything appears to be in order. What its currently doing it after cranking for several seconds it wants to start runs for almost 1 second then dies. When it wants to start I am holding the throttle open approx 8 to 10%. Without holding it slightly open it wont do anything. Almost immediately when it fires and begins to run it dies. I believe its getting too much fuel and choking itself out. The wideband is useless while cranking as it keeps resetting and isnt getting much exhaust flow. Im leaning towards adjusting the afterstart enrichment. I just dont quite know what direction to go. When it ran the one time the idle was at 1,100 RPM and it was running rich. Ive checked for spark and have great leading spark at cranking RPM's. On the cranking pulse width I have tried 12,13.5 .4,5,6,7,8,9.10 etc etc. Its not as simple as just changing to CPW. I also rescaled the VE map based on the 6.4 req fuel using the tools in the VE map. Im stuck so appreciate anyones input who's tuned a few of these. Thanks,Shawn

renns

Shawn,

1.) When MS is first powered up (or after a 2 second fuel pump prime), it fires a single priming pulse.
2.) During cranking, MS fires the injectors with a pulse width based on coolant temp.
3.) After start (rpm > 300), MS goes from 'crank' to 'afterstart' mode. In afterstart mode, fueling is based on the VE table, warmup enrichment, and then scaled up by the afterstart enrichment % (ASE).

It sounds like you can get the engine to fire, but not stay running, so you need to make your tuning adjustments in the afterstart and warmup enrichment area. As you tune your VE map, you will have to go back and adjust the afterstart and warmup values. Also check to see if you are firing cranking pulses from both injectors, or primaries only. If you have a progressive (stock Mazda) throttle body, then fire the primaries only during cranking, as there's no airflow down the secondary runners. I also found setting the ASE decay in seconds rather than cycles (yet another configuration option), and decaying over 40 seconds or so really helped startup in the cold Canadian winters.

Most all of what I've mentioned above is in the Megamanual. If you haven't already, read though it in detail. Here's the section of interest today:
http://www.megasquirt.info/v22manual/mtune.htm#howto

You may also have better luck posting to the msefi forum, as it sounds like your issues are not rotary-specific, but a matter of tuning. When posting, include your code version, a config file attachment (.msq), and a short datalog of your starting attempt.

Roger.

custom13B

Roger,
Thank you very much. Your right I think from here on I'll be on the msefi site forums more often. Ive read the megamanual but need to read it again obviously. You made it clear and the manual dosnt always do that. Im about 2 hours from Ontario so the winter is about the same here. I do have a stock S4 mazda throttle body but its fitted with a GM TPS full range. The TPS is calibrated to the MS. Im about to try cutting the values in half in the warmup and afterstart ereas as Im way too rich. I didnt think about the secondary intake runners being progressive. I will have to see if I can cut the fuel to those injectors somehow. Thanks for the tips Im off to try and put some of them to use,Thanks eh

Rex4Life

This is the menu under Fuel Basics, but obviously you want to use <OFF> for Pulse inj2 during cranking. Then use Roger's staged injection menu to trigger the staging conditions.

custom13B

Rex,
Thanks appreciate that. Its easier for me to build things than figure out the tuning. Damn your in Texas your lucky its snowing here.I dream of being albe to drive a 7 year round. Back to the garage to try and get this thing running again,Shawn

Rex4Life

Yea it was 80 F today--shorts n'Tshirt weather

custom13B

Yea rub it in I see how you are. Its 32 here and rain/snowing. Both of your tips helped. Roger I set the ASE to seconds (40) and that seemed to help. Scott I did have to turn off the secondary inj and that helped also. It now starts and runs for a couple seconds before stalling out. I lowered the cranking pulse widths also. I am now double checking the CAS timing because the threads on the bolt stripped on me. I removed the bolt and drilled it out and retapped it to install a stud. I rotated the engine to the yellow mark on the pulley. And lined up the marks on the CAS and dropped it back in carefully keeping the pick ups in the same orientation as the marks. I havnt been able to get it to run long enough to get a timing light on it. I have moved the CAS back and forth in small increments advancing and retarding the timing. I have no one around to crank it while I time the engine. But before I did get it running doing this. I really wish someone would do a detailed write up on the CAS and megasquirt. Its apparently very touchy. Im charging the battery again and wil go back out for round 2 in a bit, Shawn

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

If it now starts then dies that is actually a good sign. You need to hold your foot in it until it warms up completely. In your climate, that may take a little while. After it is warmed up you can work on fuel trim until you can slowly lower the rpm you need to hold it at. I just kept my foot on the gas and tried to hold it at the lowest rpm that I could. It started out as about 2000 rpm. I'd make fuel adjustments until this rpm smoothed out an I could lower the rpm more. If finally got it down below 1000 rpm. Then I had to to make some idle air adjustments. It's not that hard really. Once I got it where the car would idle well after it was warmed up, then I could go back at a later time and worry about acceleraton enrichment and fast idle. Worry about timing after you get it to idle from fuel adjustments. Set the timing as close as you can and then leave it there. Deal with it later. One thing at a time.

muythaibxr

I'll add notes on setting ignition timing to the FAQ when I get a chance.

custom13B

There is just no way to get it to run for more than 1.3 seconds right now. Holding on the gas pedal wont keep it running. I am in the process of putting the factory ecu back in piggy back style. Once I can reverify it works fine with that I may switch back over to MS. I am wiring it so that I can switch between ecu's. More on this later I'm frustrated and dont want to think about it anymore today.

turbosa22c

your required fuel looks low to me. i have mine set about 9.4 on the primaries i think.

Rex4Life

Give us some more details about what the car does. Any backfires? Don't give up--Sounds to me like you're close. Since it starts then dies, I'd say your cranking pw isn't bad. Looks like the ASE and VE are suspect.

Since you're going piggyback, try just running fuel first and then switch over to timing. That's what I did and I'll be going to ignition in a week or two. You may have to change some of the hardware in the MS to go piggyback--little stuff like resistors and jumpers. Let me know if you need info on that---->but I'd keep trying--you're close. Timing shouldn't be that big a factor for just idle. Have someone crank and see if your timing is ball park where it should be. Then work the fuel end. Try the realtime fuel map function and take the ve up or down as you suspect it's needed. Then once you get it warmed up, retune the low end idle areas and some cruise areas. Then you'll need to work on the ASE next time it's cold--but you'll know your idle ve's are close to the right values.

HTH,

Scott

jayroc

I wrote about installing a CAS with MS a week or two ago.. Getting your timing dead on is an important first step, I think. I'm not sure, but I believe the stock ECU compensates for some variance while installing, so even if you get it dead on, it'll be off, so far as the MS is concerned anyways. I had a bit of trouble with this at first.
The CAS is thicker than the distributor where it bolts in, I had a longer bolt to use, though. The 1st gens are kinda weird, some came with studs and some came with bolts... Not sure what you're running, though.

Skip to step 10.
http://home.mindspring.com/~wilkinsj...tallation.html

Oh, don't forget to rotate the pulley clockwise to the first mark..

custom13B

Thanks jayroc already read that,but thanks for the offer. I think this is beyond what people can help me with. I cant datalog because my laptop has no way to get online except a wireless card which died on me. So typing in descriptions of whats going on is like digging for treasure with a spoon. Im half done reinstalling the factory ecu. I left the MS wired in for now so I can make a few simple changes and hook it back up. I am not going to modify this MS any further Rex. Im amazed at myself as I havnt lost it and smashed the **** out of it with a hammer yet. Im putting the factort ecu back in because I know that system well and I know it will run fairly well with it. Im disappointed because we had some nice weather recently and I could have test drove the car on MS if it actually worked. Now the roads suck again. My patience are getting low and time is also becoming a factor. I need to be able to move the car because of ther projects. The 7 is getting set aside for a bit once its working on the factory system again. I may pay someone else to finish this off as Im better off doing what I do .

muythaibxr

He has 720 cc primaries.

muythaibxr

I agree with the other people that if you've got it to start up and run for a second or two, you just need to work on ASE and your fuel table...

One thing that helps when generating a fuel table is to tell the table generator that you have a bigger engine than you do... so normally you'd specify 2600 cc, do something like 3200 cc

Also, when you're trying to start the car, try messing with increasing the req_fuel a little at a time until the car starts, then once you get the car to run, you can re-adjust the req_fuel, and scale the VE table to match your adjustment.

custom13B

A friend came to the rescue tonight. He has experience tuning a EMS stinger on a turbo VW rabbit. He had my car running it 20 minutes. Made me feel stoopid. We made several adjustments. I do need to run easy therm as the coolant guage only went to 100 degrees on megatune. My in dash calibrated autometer guage reads 190 and my electric fan with thermostatic control was turning on. I realize this has to be fixed before any serious tuning can be done as lots depends on coolant temp. Im thinking this would be a good time to redo megatune to a newer version and use Muy's debugged extra program. Also figure out easytherm and get the coolant calibrated. For now it starts much better and idles a bit lumpy at 1,100 or so. I have no cats so the exhaust is pretty nasty idling at 11:1. But if I lean it out it starts getting rougher and wants to stall. I also need to fine tune the timing. For now Im just happy it runs again and will tackel each issue one at a time in order of importance. I dont dare remove the factory ecu yet as I dont trust MS yet. I ended up with a req fuel of 6.5 and cranking pulse width set at 8ms. With 4 -720cc injectors. My injector pulse width at idle is 2 to 2.2ms. Using 42 psi fuel pressure on a aeromotive fuel regulator thats a rising rate 1:1. I'll be working on getting the new firmware in the MS and a new wireless card to get a datalog online. My friend who helped me owes me and will be helping with all of it so I dont go postal worker. I did end up generating a VE table and req fuel based on 2800cc's instead on 2600 and leaned a few spots from there but that did help a lot. Im also having trouble with the innovative wideband. Its not reading accurately. Its wired correctly and has a resistor on the output to MS to protect the DAC's. Probally need the innovative forum to solve that issue. For now it starts and annoys the neighbors and will kill any living plantlife near the exhaust. I get a couple backfires when revving the engine and letting it return to idle so I have been careful and havnt done that much. I wont be driving it anytime soon. Going to also try and attach pics to my posts like Rex4life.

custom13B

Another question for you guys. Anyone here using a GM open element air temp sensor? I am asking to make sure I have mine calibrated correctly. I am also using a stock Mazda coolant temp sensor. I thought I changed a resistor to use the stock coolant sensor and avoid easy therm but my memory is failing me. I saw in the FAQ R4 is for the air temp but didnt see a resistor for cooalnt temp. If I can change out a resistor and avoid easy therm and simplify things I will. I also saw a thread on msefi about innovative widebands,they were talking about removing D11. Apparently D11 can cause bad 02 readings with the innovative lc-1.... anyone else having lc-1 issues? I know my LC-1 is wacky because it sometimes pegs at 4.9:1 and I know the engine would stall out at that AF ratio. My narrowband autometer reads 11:1 and the innovative 4.9:1. The autometer guage I know works correctly. Thanks once again

Rex4Life

Allright--way to go. My pw is at 3.1 ms for idle using 550 cc injectors, which if corrected for your 720's comes out to about 2.4 ms so that looks pretty good.

Since you're full up on MS just follow the faq about how to wire up the temp sensors--right now I'm piggyback sharing sensors so it's different.

Scott

Rex4Life

Easytherm is easy to use, don't be intimidated by the process. We can walk you thru it. I found this info to be helpful (Thanks Renns):

So, to use EasyTherm:

1) download the -extra code version of your choice.

2) Copy the msnsextra.s19 file from that download, and place it in your Megasquirt/car1 folder.

3) Then run EasyTherm, and select 'Custom' for the file type. When prompted, browse to the Megasquirt/car1 folder,
and select the msnsextra.s19 file you just copied earlier. EasyTherm now uses that .s19 file,
strips out the old lookup tables, and replaces them with the custom ones of your choice.
The latest release will also automatically copy the required .inc files over to your mtCfg folder
so MegaTune can find them.

4) You can then download that new code to your MS as well, and be ready to run.

5) If you have the -extra code version on your system, and have access to _correct_ sensor data,
this process should take less than 5 minutes.

Oh yea, somewhere in those steps you tell it you want Mazda sensors, there's a pulldown menu to select the stock sensor values.

About the LC-1, I made no MS hardware mods to accomodate the LC-1. So far it's working OK. I'll have to look into that some more.

Scott

muythaibxr

For the LC-1, if you don't set up your settings.ini file to work with that wideband, it's not going to read properly. Also, you have to make sure your LC-1's outputs are set up to give you a 0-5v signal that corresponds to 10:1-20:1. Finally, that D11 thing is only for a v2.2 board. IF you have a v3 board, you don't have to do that.

For your coolant temp, it is unnecessary to change the resistor, just use easytherm as Rex4Life says. If you're using a GM open air temperature sensor for AIT, just leave the settings for that alone, it'll be fine using the default resistor and inc files... the coolant temperature is the only one you need to regenerate inc files for using easytherm.

custom13B

I knew I should have changed to a GM sensor...lol. I'll use easy therm and figure it out,thanks Rex. I do have megatune configured for a wideband. When is the BIOS of the extra file there was a code I added for the LC-1. From the innovative forum. I posted a link to it in another thread. I'll look for that later. Im going to try and do a free air calibration on the 02 as I know it got soaked with gas when the engine flooded severly. Headin out for now going to a wholesale car auction today.

custom13B

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/f...ead.php?t=2364 Thats the innovative thread link. MiseryQ is the one who gave me the info.

muythaibxr

He missed the settings that you need to change in settings.ini

You need to edit your settings.ini file (in the mtCfg directory, maybe in car1 directory), and look for where it says "LAMDA_SENSOR"

Below that, you'll see a bunch of #unset options, and one of the options there will say #set NARROW_BAND_EGO

You'll want to change that to #unset NARROW_BAND_EGO, and then make sure you #set INNOVATE_LC1_DEFAULT (It should already be there, and if it isn't, you'll need to upgrade megatune).

That should get you an accurate reading in megatune assuming the right LC1 output is wired to the MS, and the LC-1 is working and set up correctly. You also have to make sure that if your LC-1 has a green wire, it is hooked up to one of the MS ground pins on the megasquirt. If you don't do this, the voltage the megasquirt reads from the wideband unit will not be accurate. If your LC-1 doesn't have a green wire (some early ones didn't) make sure the LC-1 system ground (white wire) is grounded to the same location you chose to ground your MS at.

custom13B

I think I have things set properly in the settings ini file I remember unsetting narrowband and setting wideband but I'll double check anyways. If theres a mistake thats where it will be. I have the white wire sharing the MS ground already that Im sure of. I tried starting it this morning and it almost started but didnt. It did backfire pretty nasty. That tells me my timing is still off most likely. I dont like backfires (detonation). I didnt have time to play around with it. Went to a car auction all day. Will try again tomorrow and update,Shawn