Jakesrail

OK, I have been going over the this datalog over and over. there are some wird things that happen like the tps dot jumping from 0 to 19 with out me touching the throttle, and at the same time, the PW jumps from 3.383 to 5.397(record 1389) the other thing is that in tuner studio, I am seeing AFRs in the upper 10 and lower 11 range on the AFR gauge, but in logworks, I am seeing AFRs in the 7s and 8s. they are both set to default LC1settings.

I was also noticing from 1522 to 1544 that my TPS stays right at 2, but my RPMs jump up from 1167 RPMs to 2457RPMs. I am using a GM TPS. it is a stock 1996 GM 350 truck TPS. could this be causing some of my problems. it is mounted solid, and no slopin any of the moving parts that I can see. is there a better setup for the TPS. I keep hearing about the s5 TPS, is that what I need?

and by the way, this data log was when I was sitting still, no load.

muythaibxr

I'll take a look when I get home.

Ken

muythaibxr

This can be indicative of noise on the throttle position sensor, although a little bit of jitter there is necessary. I don't know what your TPSdot threshold is set to, but you should be able to fix the issue by increasing this.

Did you calibrate for the LC1 default settings in TunerStudio? I'm assuming yes. If so, how is your wideband wired? I do not think that if you were really running 7-8 for AFR your engine would actually be running. How is the LC1 wired? IF it's the 7-wire LC1, you need to make sure that its analog ground goes to one of the MS grounds (sensor ground preferably). IF it's the 6-wire LC-1, the system and heater grounds should both go to the same spot on the engine that you grounded the MS at.

You have something else going on... a vacuum leak or something of that nature. The MS doesn't control the throttle plate so something else ran the RPM up. The only way the MS can do this is if the BAC valve is wired in and opens up. That did not happen in your log, so that could not have been the problem.

I also noticed that your MAT and CLT signals are a little noisy. Did you ground those all the way back to the MS? The TPS too? If not, those three grounds should come all the way back to the MS and be wired to the sensor ground pin on there.

Ken

Jakesrail

OK, that gives me a good list to work on this next weekend, I think I grounded everything to the block, and the block is grounded to the MS, so I will redo that, and ground all sensors to the MS. I wwas thinking about the climbing RPMs when off of the throttle, and I wonder if I was starting to push the throttle, the TPS hadn't registered, but the throttle plate was staring to open. I will reground everything to the MS this weekend, and try it again. thanks
Jake

Jakesrail

OK, I grounded all of the sensors, and the megasquirt to 1 post on the block, and I smoothed out all of my maps, but that didnt really fix anything, so I started playing with my required fuel settings, I set the required fuel settings to 13.0, that gives me 6.5 MS, I also set it to 4 squirts per cycle. it is running between 11:1 and 15:1 depending on throttle, load, and so on. now, there is no hesitation, it runs great, but it smokes a little. I think I am going to lower my settings at idle, and try to get it to stop smoking, and idle a little smoother, and I need to play with my startup settings, because of coarse, it tries to flood very quick, after it started, I had to hold it at full throttle for about 10 seconds before it idled back up to 1000RPMs. all in all, it runs 100% better, it is hard to start, and a rough idle, I just dont understand why I need to set the req fuel so high? I will post a my MSQ and see what you guys think.
Jake

pmrobert

Jake, I would suggest that you tune for what runs well and try to understand the math at a later date. I've been there, done that a couple of times and it will all make sense eventually. It sounds like you're well on your way to getting things sorted out. This is, I think, your first time doing this and it is a steep learning curve, no doubt. There is much satisfaction as you get things optimized. Keep us posted...

Jakesrail

OK, I have played with it a little today. I took it to a spot that had a steep hill about 1/8 mile long. it is a dirt road, so I ran it up and down the road few times in the sand rail that weighs around 1000 pounds, it likes to pull the front end up a little. in second gear, at about 3500 RPMs, I am pushing 49 MPH and then the rear tires like to break loose, and it goes a little sideways, so it is definitely running a ton better, there is a very slight hesitation still, but not completely die, and fight to get it to rev back up, so it is very drivable now. the only issue, is that it tries to flood when I start it, it is real bad when it is hot. what do I need to tune to fix that with out affecting its running ability. would it just be my cranking pulses? do you think taking them down by 50% on the cranking pulse widths would be about right? I went from 9.5 req fuel to 13. I will play with it a little more this week when get a chance, and see wha I figure out. thanks again to everyone who threw in their 2 cents.
Jake

muythaibxr

As far as grounding, etc... I had said to wire the sensor's grounds directly to the MS then wire the MS ground to the engine. grounding them all at the same point is not the same as wiring sensor grounds to the MS. Wiring the sensor grounds directly to the MS will lead to smoother analog signals, and can smooth out the TPS signal (making AE easier to tune).

Other than that, glad it's starting to work out for you.

Ken

Jakesrail

OK, I will have to tear into it this weekend and see what pin is my sensor ground pin, I will change that over, and who knows, maybe that will smooth out the little things (I can dream). thanks
for the help
Jake

muythaibxr

Forgot to answer your flooding question.

Yes, you can fix that by reducing the cranking pulse width values at the problem temperatures.

When you increase req_fuel, that also increases the cranking pw, so that is probably your problem.

Ken

Jakesrail

Thanks, that's what I was thinking on the cranking pulses. I had redone some things last weekend. i rewired my fuel pump. it was wired into a switch so I could turn the pump on and off and not be controlled through the megasquirt. but after doing this, it started up and ran the first time, but after that, I couldn't get it to start. it may be in my settings, I will have to check into that, but for now it is back on the switch, and working good. I wired my coolant temp, air temp, TPS, and LC1 grounds all to the sensor ground wire on the MSII, and now my TPS signal is very erratic. it is worse than before. when I had it grounded to the block, the TPS gauge in tunerstudio would not move at all at idle, now, it jumps around from 3 to -1. I think I will try taking the LC1 ground off, and maybe the temp sensor grounds off, and seeing if it changes anything. with how erratic it is right now, I have to set my TPS dot threshold to 110 to keep it from going into accel when sitting at idle. if it is any lower, it goes in and out of accel constantly, and after idling for 5 to 10 minutes, it starts to load up from it, and then the plugs are fouled out. as I have said before, I am running my stock throttle body, and I made a bracket to hold a GM type TPS on the side. is there a better option, is there a stock rotary Throttle Body that has a tps on it that will work better?
Jake

pmrobert

Have you tried MAPdot?

Jakesrail

I have tried to play with mapdot a little, but I really have no Idea where to start. I did just rewire my sensor ground, so that only the TPS is on the MSII sensor ground. it did help, now, the TPS sits at zero, but will still occasionally jump up to 1. now I have my TPS DOT Threshold set to 50, and it is better I have got my fuel req down to 11, and i am sitting right around 10.8 AFR on idle. there are a few little hesitations mostly if I am around 4000 RPMs, and hit the throttle hard, it will stumble around 5000 RPMs. so I am going to look at my accel settings to see what it is doing around 5000, and I will smooth out my VE table. I had seen somewhere that the rotarys like 11 - 12 AFR. does thatsound about right? thanks.
Jake

pmrobert

I've always been happy idling at ~13.5 and low 12s for full throttle. This is a ported 12A 50mm ITB NA on 93 E10 so we're talking a bit different application. Timing is very important as well. 4 degrees retarded from optimum at full output severely depresses power. The converse is true in my experience; once you find the optimum advance adding more timing doesn't add power and pisses off your apex seals on the first couple of knocks...

muythaibxr

The LC1 should not be wired to the sensor ground. Apologies if I didn't make that clear last time. Wiring the LC1 that way will cause all the other sensors to be jumpy. If the LC1 is a 6-wire harness, you must wire its grounds to the same point on the engine as the MS. IF the LC1 is 7 wire, it's still good to wire the heater and system grounds to the same point as the MS, and then you can wire the analog ground directly to the MS sensor ground.

Ken

Jakesrail

OK, I got it all taken care of. it is running tons better, there is a very slight hesitation still, but it is barely noticeable. I think I just need to smooth out my VE table a little bit more, but I will run it this weekend at the Dunes, and see what it does under a good load. I picked up a palm pilot the other day for free, I loaded palm log on it, so now I can log what it is doing when I am putting it to a good test.thanks everyone
Jake

pmrobert

Very cool. Your rail should be a monster with just stock power!

Jakesrail

It does pretty good when it runs like it should, considering I am pushing just over 1000 pounds with that motor. I still want to add a turbo this winter (around 10PSI), just something to help it get to those high RPMs on the steep climbs, and who knows, maybe I will get brave and tear into it and port it too. but thats a different situation for a different thread!
JAke

Jakesrail

well, I finally drove it off the trailer, and back on under its own power. it ran great this last weekend. it needs a little tweaking, when the weather was colder, and the motor hadn't got up to operating temp yet, there is a very slight hesitation, but after it warmed up, it was better, and that is with my required fuel set to 10, so its easier to start, and not running so rich. but one thing that I did notice is that I really think my timing is off when the motor is at a high load. the one dune that gets me is a 700 foot climb, it is rough at the bottom, so I have to go slow through the first 200 feet or so, and then where it smooths out, it is getting into the steeper part of the climb. what gets me is that I have made it to the top with my 30 horse VW motor, and now, I just cant get to the top. second gear is out of the question, but in first, I am doing about 4500 RPMs when I get into the smoother section, I mash on the throttle, and it picks up to around 6000RPMS. after another 200-300 foot climb, that's where it starts to get real steep, and that's where I noticed, it feels like the timing is way off, it almost sounded like it was running in the rev limiter(set to 8500 RPM), but I was nowhere near the rev limiter, even as the RPMs dropped, it still sounded like the timing was off, so I really think it is just my high load timing needs to be fixed. I may be getting an 88-89 13B turbo II this weekend, and if so, that is going in the rail, and i will start all over again. my wife is going to hate this.
Jake

pmrobert

Jake, please don't take this wrong, but you might be well served to get your NA install running in a righteous manner before throwing the complexities of a turbo into the picture. Incorrect fueling and timing in the NA is quite unlikely to break internal parts (apex seals!) but just a couple of really hard knocks under boost is a major engine killer. Just my opinion, I'm really happy to see you're making progress and wish the best for you.

-Mike

pmrobert

Oh, also - pissed off wives are a Bad Thing, believe me - please make sure the payoff is worth the pain. :-) Mine doesn't know about the new scavenge pump that Mr. UPS gave me today. I have some pain coming...

Jakesrail

oh, I know that the turbo setup is not something for an amateur to play with, I dont think I will be switching out the motor, what I am doing is building a new frame, it will be a 5 seater, and a little heavier. so I will need a bit more motor to compensate. I will get the motor, but I will probably be seeing a professional tuner for this job, or just really trying to get the stock ECU to work with half of the wiring gone!!!