Megasquirt help me understand.
Thread Starter
84 SE
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 15
From: Summit Hill, PA
help me understand.
Hi guys,
I have an 84SE N/A with the S5 intake and would really like to go with a stand-alone ECU. I'm wondering what is the difference between the Megasquirt and the other ECU's? I know that the MS has to be assembled, but does it do the same as the others?
Which version of the MS should I get?
Mike
I have an 84SE N/A with the S5 intake and would really like to go with a stand-alone ECU. I'm wondering what is the difference between the Megasquirt and the other ECU's? I know that the MS has to be assembled, but does it do the same as the others?
Which version of the MS should I get?
Mike
It definitely "does the same as the others", but it is VERY hands on and has a relatively steep learning curve and the software is all windows-based. I couldn't stand it at first, but once I got the hang of it and after installing and tuning about 4 so far, I find it to be relatively easy----- But this is usually the case with anyone who has experience with a particular ecu over time....
You just want a MS2 CPU, with a V3.0 PCB.
You will need an
LM1815N Chip,
as well as some other resistors and capacitors and transistors.
Code Version to use is ms2extra1.0.2 until Ken gets the newer stuff reliable for general users, and some testing by a few others so you are sure its a solution achievable by the general user.
You will need an
LM1815N Chip,
as well as some other resistors and capacitors and transistors.
Code Version to use is ms2extra1.0.2 until Ken gets the newer stuff reliable for general users, and some testing by a few others so you are sure its a solution achievable by the general user.
Thread Starter
84 SE
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 15
From: Summit Hill, PA
It definitely "does the same as the others", but it is VERY hands on and has a relatively steep learning curve and the software is all windows-based. I couldn't stand it at first, but once I got the hang of it and after installing and tuning about 4 so far, I find it to be relatively easy----- But this is usually the case with anyone who has experience with a particular ecu over time....
Thanks. They do make the ones that are already assembled right? What is the latest version of the MS? About how much are the pre-assembled ones?
Yes, they do. diyautotune sells them preassembled, but the board needs to be modified along with an lm1815 circuit being assembled on the proto board, etc. to work on the rotary.
Stick with the 3.0 board as the newer 3.57 board uses all surface mount components and is hard to modify for a rotary........and preferably one I would stay away from. There is also a choice between the MS1 and MS2 processors. The preassembled unit alone is about $330 for the MS1 and $400 for the MS2 along with the wire harness ($65) and the coolant and air temp sensors ($40), etc.
BTW, I modify the DIY units and wire harness for a cost....unless you are electronically savvy of course, then go for it!
Stick with the 3.0 board as the newer 3.57 board uses all surface mount components and is hard to modify for a rotary........and preferably one I would stay away from. There is also a choice between the MS1 and MS2 processors. The preassembled unit alone is about $330 for the MS1 and $400 for the MS2 along with the wire harness ($65) and the coolant and air temp sensors ($40), etc.
BTW, I modify the DIY units and wire harness for a cost....unless you are electronically savvy of course, then go for it!
Last edited by 2Lucky2tha7; Oct 29, 2008 at 11:23 PM.
Thread Starter
84 SE
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 15
From: Summit Hill, PA
Yes, they do. diyautotune sells them preassembled, but the board needs to be modified along with an lm1815 circuit being assembled on the proto board, etc. to work on the rotary.
Stick with the 3.0 board as the newer 3.57 board uses all surface mount components and is hard to modify for a rotary........and preferably one I would stay away from. There is also a choice between the MS1 and MS2 processors. The preassembled unit alone is about $330 for the MS1 and $400 for the MS2 along with the wire harness ($65) and the coolant and air temp sensors ($40), etc.
BTW, I modify the DIY units and wire harness for a cost....unless you are electronically savvy of course, then go for it!
Stick with the 3.0 board as the newer 3.57 board uses all surface mount components and is hard to modify for a rotary........and preferably one I would stay away from. There is also a choice between the MS1 and MS2 processors. The preassembled unit alone is about $330 for the MS1 and $400 for the MS2 along with the wire harness ($65) and the coolant and air temp sensors ($40), etc.
BTW, I modify the DIY units and wire harness for a cost....unless you are electronically savvy of course, then go for it!
Ok, so there is all this stuff that needs to be done before I can even use it. Other than cost, what would be the advantage of using the MS? Can you break it down a little more for me as to everything I need, what do I have to do, how it works, etc? From your above post, do you mean that I have to purchase special coolant and air temp sensors? Still really confused.
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 118
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From: bolton, on
The modifications he is referring to are hardware modifications on the MS itself. The original firmware developed for the MSII was designed to run a single coil or ford EDIS ignition. In order to allow the MS to run the stock FC ignition some hardware modifications are required on the the ECU as well as a firmware upgrade called ms2extra 1.0.2. They are relativly simple mods, and include either removing teeth from the crank position sensor (CPS) or alternativly assembly a small circuit called a VR sensor conditioner, to decode the signal coming from the second trigger wheel in the CPS, and adding pull up resistors to the LED's on the MS board so those circuits can be used to trigger the three coils in the FC ignition system.
You do not need special sensors of any sort, the ms can be programmed via megatune to read the input from stock sensors. What you would need as stated by JOBRO is
MSII chip, V3.0 PCB, and ms2extra firmware 1.0.2
A LM1815N chip as well as other common electrical components to assemble the second VR conditioner circuit. A detailed guide on how to build this circuit is floating around somewhere. It's not difficult to do don't get intimidated. the parts can be purchased from a company called digi-key
Then perform the modifications on the PCB as described earlier...there are more detailed write-ups on how this is done as well.
In my eyes the advantages of the MS are, it's upgradable, it's a great learning tool, and it's very inexpensive. Unlike other aftermarket ECU's every possible bit of information is available to the public in order to furthur progress devolpment. When you buy another after market ecu, your stuck with what you have forever. So once the hardware becomes outdated you need to buy another expensive ecu to replace it if you want the best of whats available. With MS, as it becomes more devolped and new technology arises, it can easily be upgraded to perform the tasks you want for far less cost.
The MS works like every other fuel ignition controller. Several variables are taken in, these values are used in the computation of algorithoms to determine the signal to output to the output devices. The mega manual has a very good description on everything and I highly recommend reading it in it's entirity before making any desicion on any aftermarket system. Even if you dont go with megasquirt reading the manual will help you make an informed desicion on which aftermarket ecu will provide you with what you want. Hope this helps
You do not need special sensors of any sort, the ms can be programmed via megatune to read the input from stock sensors. What you would need as stated by JOBRO is
MSII chip, V3.0 PCB, and ms2extra firmware 1.0.2
A LM1815N chip as well as other common electrical components to assemble the second VR conditioner circuit. A detailed guide on how to build this circuit is floating around somewhere. It's not difficult to do don't get intimidated. the parts can be purchased from a company called digi-key
Then perform the modifications on the PCB as described earlier...there are more detailed write-ups on how this is done as well.
In my eyes the advantages of the MS are, it's upgradable, it's a great learning tool, and it's very inexpensive. Unlike other aftermarket ECU's every possible bit of information is available to the public in order to furthur progress devolpment. When you buy another after market ecu, your stuck with what you have forever. So once the hardware becomes outdated you need to buy another expensive ecu to replace it if you want the best of whats available. With MS, as it becomes more devolped and new technology arises, it can easily be upgraded to perform the tasks you want for far less cost.
The MS works like every other fuel ignition controller. Several variables are taken in, these values are used in the computation of algorithoms to determine the signal to output to the output devices. The mega manual has a very good description on everything and I highly recommend reading it in it's entirity before making any desicion on any aftermarket system. Even if you dont go with megasquirt reading the manual will help you make an informed desicion on which aftermarket ecu will provide you with what you want. Hope this helps
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Thread Starter
84 SE
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 15
From: Summit Hill, PA
The modifications he is referring to are hardware modifications on the MS itself. The original firmware developed for the MSII was designed to run a single coil or ford EDIS ignition. In order to allow the MS to run the stock FC ignition some hardware modifications are required on the the ECU as well as a firmware upgrade called ms2extra 1.0.2. They are relativly simple mods, and include either removing teeth from the crank position sensor (CPS) or alternativly assembly a small circuit called a VR sensor conditioner, to decode the signal coming from the second trigger wheel in the CPS, and adding pull up resistors to the LED's on the MS board so those circuits can be used to trigger the three coils in the FC ignition system.
You do not need special sensors of any sort, the ms can be programmed via megatune to read the input from stock sensors. What you would need as stated by JOBRO is
and msMSII chip, V3.0 PCB, 2extra firmware 1.0.2
A LM1815N chip as well as other common electrical components to assemble the second VR conditioner circuit. A detailed guide on how to build this circuit is floating around somewhere. It's not difficult to do don't get intimidated. the parts can be purchased from a company called digi-key
Then perform the modifications on the PCB as described earlier...there are more detailed write-ups on how this is done as well.
In my eyes the advantages of the MS are, it's upgradable, it's a great learning tool, and it's very inexpensive. Unlike other aftermarket ECU's every possible bit of information is available to the public in order to furthur progress devolpment. When you buy another after market ecu, your stuck with what you have forever. So once the hardware becomes outdated you need to buy another expensive ecu to replace it if you want the best of whats available. With MS, as it becomes more devolped and new technology arises, it can easily be upgraded to perform the tasks you want for far less cost.
The MS works like every other fuel ignition controller. Several variables are taken in, these values are used in the computation of algorithoms to determine the signal to output to the output devices. The mega manual has a very good description on everything and I highly recommend reading it in it's entirity before making any desicion on any aftermarket system. Even if you dont go with megasquirt reading the manual will help you make an informed desicion on which aftermarket ecu will provide you with what you want. Hope this helps
You do not need special sensors of any sort, the ms can be programmed via megatune to read the input from stock sensors. What you would need as stated by JOBRO is
and msMSII chip, V3.0 PCB, 2extra firmware 1.0.2
A LM1815N chip as well as other common electrical components to assemble the second VR conditioner circuit. A detailed guide on how to build this circuit is floating around somewhere. It's not difficult to do don't get intimidated. the parts can be purchased from a company called digi-key
Then perform the modifications on the PCB as described earlier...there are more detailed write-ups on how this is done as well.
In my eyes the advantages of the MS are, it's upgradable, it's a great learning tool, and it's very inexpensive. Unlike other aftermarket ECU's every possible bit of information is available to the public in order to furthur progress devolpment. When you buy another after market ecu, your stuck with what you have forever. So once the hardware becomes outdated you need to buy another expensive ecu to replace it if you want the best of whats available. With MS, as it becomes more devolped and new technology arises, it can easily be upgraded to perform the tasks you want for far less cost.
The MS works like every other fuel ignition controller. Several variables are taken in, these values are used in the computation of algorithoms to determine the signal to output to the output devices. The mega manual has a very good description on everything and I highly recommend reading it in it's entirity before making any desicion on any aftermarket system. Even if you dont go with megasquirt reading the manual will help you make an informed desicion on which aftermarket ecu will provide you with what you want. Hope this helps
Thanks a million for this response. This is all new to me, so I'm bound to ask some more dumb questions. Are the necessary parts that you mentioned (msMSII chip, V3.0 PCB, 2extra firmware 1.0.2) still required if I have no CAS and am using a distributor? So I guess it will cost at least 500 bucks for these parts? Does digi-key have the pre-assembled boards?
Mike
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 118
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From: bolton, on
Digi-key has the misc. electronics goods you need for the second VR trigger and any other ancillary circuits you may install in time to perform various functions, not the MS system. I'm not familiar with the first gen ignition system so It's hard for me to say what exactly you require, especially since it is goal specific...as I said before, read the megamanual and you will be better equipped to assess your own needs. The Ms2 and 3.0 board is the current latest and greatest, but you can run an MS1 processor, though I would really suggest spending the little bit of money more for the MS2 chip as your needs will change in time and it is a more capable processor. If you decide to go with the MS system and are like me and love toying with cars, I highly recommend assemblying it yourself, you will learn a ton and IMO it's an enjoyable experince though challenging NVM the savings involved! If you build it yourself you will definitely have a greater understanding of how the ECU functions and be better equipped to maximise it's capabilities in the future.
^^As he stated...
BTW, buy USED FC coil packs (still bolted onto the ignitors of course), and a used CAS. I was able to spend a total of about $100 for the leading and trailing coil setups together, and a used CAS can be had for around $30 -$60. Don't bother buying them new because they can typically (not always) outlive the life of the car and they cost around $500+ EACH brand new.
BTW, the 2nd gen CAS replaces the distributor...
BTW, buy USED FC coil packs (still bolted onto the ignitors of course), and a used CAS. I was able to spend a total of about $100 for the leading and trailing coil setups together, and a used CAS can be had for around $30 -$60. Don't bother buying them new because they can typically (not always) outlive the life of the car and they cost around $500+ EACH brand new.
BTW, the 2nd gen CAS replaces the distributor...
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