smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

im posting 5 clips on here to express what i am talking about.

1. as i rev up with less than full throttle... more so, 100kpa the motor can accelerate past 5000 rpms with only slight hesitation. with less than 100kpa... say 80, it starts to breakup really bad about 5300 rpms. ive tried adding more fuel there, because the afrs said it was far above 15:1. and i continued to add fuel there until the map started to really look stupid. yet i still get a lean afr. so i looked up my rev limiter and realized the low rpm limit was set at 5000 and the high was at 8000 rpm. so i changed the low to 7500rpm and tried this again. but with no difference in the results. out of gear or in gear riding down the road, this happens. my fuel pressure doesnt drop at all. and you can see on my ve map that there is plenty of fuel there. i have considered ignition breakup but am not sure.

2. acceleration wizard confuses me. i dont speak that language. so im posting my current settings for that too. ive only adjusted the time from .2 up to .4 this seems to help. previously afrs would richen ever so slightly and then go real lean before leveling out with the map. so i up'd the time. this helps with leaning after the accel enrichment. there is none now. but i also was playing with the %/s box. the less of a number here, the touchy-er the throttle ae is..? with a setting of less than about 3, it is practically floodding. so i figured 100%/s should pretty much turn off the ae. but it wont let me set it there. can i get feedback on some other peoples settings please?

3. also posting my ignition map for constructive criticizm. this may help you help me decide if spark is an issue with my breakups. also... i am using a 6port no sleeve motor with high compression and a t2 manifold. stock porting, and hks turbo exh manifold to t04 turbo that is not adding compressed air to intake yet. i have been too wary with the other issues im having. it is spooling very strong at about 2500 rpms, so i figured my spark map wasnt too bad. but it is a unique situation for ignition timing because of the "extended porting"

getting ready to go through inspecition and was trying to get these two bugs worked out before i drive the 15 miles there. there is two datalog clips of the breakup at 5300rpm. one with a gradual accel to this point and one with a sharper approach. much appreciated and feedback.

i am also open to the idea of utilizing a tuning specialist in the area if there is such a thing. since my car is not tagged yet, i cant rationalize towing my car to one of these tuner meets. anyone in the area willing to drive a little, i will surely compensate. its almost summer time and i still dont have this thing ready to roll.

Vierte

iTrader: (2)

post your logs and msq files. the images you posted are very difficult to read. you can upload a zip file, this would help out a lot.

also maybe i missed it in your post but explain your ecu setup a little bit more. Is it MS1 V3? MSII. Did you build a wiring harness/buy one. Did you build a second Vr conditioning circuit? if so which circuit did you build? are your CAS wires properly shielded and grounded?

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

yes yes. sorry. i have ms2 v3 with a stock wiring harness. my shielding is good and as far as i can tell everything is electronically sound now. i had some issues before, but they have been resolved. there is a second vr circuit on the proto area.

i will not be able to post my msq or log untill maybe later tonight. my lack of internet makes this difficult to do.

log file i will post later is just of me sitting in the yard, revving up to see if i could fix the 5300rpm issue. at some points i had accel enrichment on and off and also had played with %/s trigger i guess.

also i have changed the upper load and upper rpm bins in the spark map. previously they were much more advanced and i had thought there was some knock causing this 5300 problem, so i backed off the advance some with no positive result. so the msq may seem very conservative as far as ign adv goes.

thanks for the interest

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

ok here are the full length msq and datalog files. this should help. again, thanks for the viewing.

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

ok? well i went back to the bdc extended port advance timing map. i liked it better. i guess ive pretty much narrowed it down to two thing... my 5000rpm issue. im dumping more than enough fuel down there and not losing any pressure. ive had the car rev past this point before.. how i dont know. so i figure my coils are working well enough. and the advance map should be close if anything. so i figure either my 3 inch downpipe reduced to stock exhaust before the cat is too restrictive or clogged up, or something else is causing the motor to slow down incredibly fast. if one was to look at the datalog, during a fast rev to 5000rpm, engine speed surpases 5300 on a sharp spike to 7xxx?rpm and then quickly goes down to 3xxxrpm and then back to about where it was supposed to be. the way the engine sounds, it sounds as if it were rev limited by removing fuel. but according to the datalogs, the rpms spike is really fast. im not sure the engine is capable of slowing down this fast by just removing fuel or spark. its like back pressure builds up and forces the rotors to slow down dramatically. so i thought that possibly the cat could be clogged up and when the exhaust flow increases past the load point in which this happens, its forcing the motor to bog down? 5000rpm is not the only place this happens either. under heavy loads, full throttle, 100kpa, about anywhere above 2500rpm, the motor and entire driveline shakes terribly bad. any ideas..? im open to new ideas

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

ok so i went to motor vehicles today to get it ran through inspection... which it didnt.... but here's the files from the trip.

Vierte

iTrader: (2)

well i doubt i will be much help to you but i will try. im new to tuning but have built a MS for an NA rx7(tuned this one kinda) and a single turbo 1JZ, both were MS1 V3. and i will warn you that ive had a few cocktails.

first off verify something. in the last datalog your max rpm was 2990 rpm. is that correct? the one before says that your max was 4160 rpm.. which means neither of those logs caught a spike. if that is not true then maybe MS is not seeing the correct rpm which could be a big part of your problem. another thing. at one point i was getting tach spikes at 7000rpm. i had built a vr circuit and replaced a certain resitor with a 47k resistor. i then found a pdf for setring up MSII for an rx7. it had an 82k resistor where my 47k was. i changed to the 82k and started getting 5000 rpm spikes. i then changed to a 33k.. i think.. and tach spikes went away. you might consider looking toward your vr circuit if your positive your not picking up noise on the cas wiring.


second your afrs seem to be pretty lean for wot. for comparison.. in my stock NA if i hit 14.7 afr at cruizing loads it can start to get jerky. keep in mind that VE bins for turbo motors will be above 100% for positive pressure portions of the map. .. wait your not building boost. sorry.. ill have to think about this when im sober! i might be able to explain accel. wizard then too!



EDIT: i havent been able to look at your msq's yet... i dont know how to open them with megatune when your not connected to a megasquirt.

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

the log that is titled 5-6 is the one with the spiking. i think the highest rpm shown on there was 7xxx. the one that stands out the most is pictured in the screenshots on the first post. all of that is from the 5-6 file. its a hard acceleration up to about 5300 rpm and at that point the rpms shoot to 7xxx in only one "slide". forgive my ignorance, but i dont know what to call the "slides" in the datalog. its not seconds but fractions of a second i assume. well in one of these fractions is when this jump from 5300 straight to 7xxx occurs. it should not be that fast. its faster than the engine can accelerate. i dont think its just a voltage spike from noise or the likes. the engine is actually jumping. but maybe not as much as the tach says that it is.

maybe ken can input on this. calling out to ken...

is there any other cases of this rpm specific spiking? and are resistors the answer. i have added a capacitor to my vr circuit already and that took care of the big noise problem before.

i agree with the wot stoich-ness. i have cases where power is spotty through out the rpm range. im not really sure what im doing but trying to smooth the entire map out so i can not be jumping around under hard throttle so much. i have a really responsive period around 2500 but it dies out around 2800.

and i definately have a tranny issue under high loads. its shaking really bad.

muythaibxr

Smaller spikes like that could just mean you need better shielding for your CAS VR wiring.

Ken

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

well i thought i had this vr noise thing all taken care of before. possibly not. where does the stock shielding ground to? i suppose i may just pick up some shielded rca cable and snip the ends. good idea, bad idea? i think we have had this discussion before. and is that what you would call a little spike? from 5000 to 7000 in like a millisec. either way it is coming from somewhere and it is seriously rocking my junk.

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

um about the accel enrich... i downloaded the megamanual, and according to that, they suggest to turn off ae while tuning the ve table by setting a trigger value out of range. such as 250%/s. which would be 12.5V/s? either way this should be out of range for the ae to work. and i do just that, by setting this to 250 and burning to ecu. only when i fetch from ecu, the highest it has allowed me to set it was 20.4%/s. i will burn 250 and it sets it to either 20.4 or 19.6. i thought maybe it was just not burning so i saved it to the file im using on that day, and burn the whole file to the ecu, with engine not running of coarse. im at a loss. its like the msII wont accept the value of 250? any one else had this issue? and to avoid this could i just zero out the ae table on the tps? i am using 100%tps control. and when i set it up after im done tuning ve, will 20.4%/s trigger be too touchy? what if i need to set it higher? because i can tell you right now, everytime i hit a bump in the road, and the throttle moves just the slightest, its like riding a bull. afr's go lean to rich and back and forth. very annoying.

also, when i turn off the car and then back on before the ccoolant has had a change to drop below the hyst, temp the fan wont turn on when it reaches the trigger temp again. for example... trigger temp of 88*c and hyster of 82*c. if the car is shut down and then restarted in five minutes and the temp is 82* or higher when reset, the fan will not come on once it has reached trigger temp of 88*c. is this a msII glitch? or just a me glitch? am considering putting in a manual override switch for this situation during short visits to the store. i went to blockbuster yesterday and overheated really bad. had to wait for it to cool down and borrow a hose from dominos pizza accross the parking lot. embarassing.

muythaibxr

By little spike, I mean what you're seeing; I've seen much worse spikes, like up to 20000 rpms.

Just make sure that your shielding is only grounded on one end (I usually ground to the MS ground pins).

If you have it set up that way, then you may be able to solve your problem with some good microphone cable, and by running the cable away from coils, plug-wires, alternator, etc...

Ken

smackhead999

iTrader: (5)

im gonna pic up some microphone cable and check it out. i also, picked up a small fuel filter to dampen the MAP. its a little pulse sick. its up and down as much as 2 or 3 kpa while idling at 1500rpm. i pinched the map line to ms, but it didnt help much for a few seconds untill it nearly stalled the motor. only then did it seem to smooth out.

i still dont know about some dwell and ignition options. i was going to post these screen grabs of what i have, but the disc i burnt with the pics on it failed. and now i am at my uncles house using his net.

so... i have looked at the faq and searched this forum, and downloaded megamanual. im using msii extra and have more options i guess to fill out with this dwell and stuff, than i can find information to. untill i can get these screen grabs up here...

max dwell of 4
cranking dwell of 6
max spark time of .5

there is no option for min dwell or i would set it to 2. there are some others that i cant remember off hand. and thats all in the window for more ignition options in the basic settings. then there is the window in extended.. or advanced...i think? it is called "needs change to %" and its has voltage correction and dwell options in it. there are 5 voltage bins and 5 correction bins. i could not find any information on this. help me out.

thanks for the help ken.. as always

SCCA RX7 RACER

Hi There,

I have NA street port motor in my race car. I see by your data log your very lean. I run 13.2 to 13.4 at wide open throttle all the way to 9000 RPM. Start with slow throttle applications hold and shift through the gears. At each shift point you will see a spike or a drop in your AF ratio. By pass them and tune pass them. Once you have a good fuel table then play with the throttle stuff. It will take you a lot of hour. Also I all ways make a copy of my MS program to fall back on if I go the wronge way with something.
Best Regards
RX7 Racer