Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Hello,
I am still quite new to this. I have had two bright guys get me and my car up and running. I am really grateful for their help and now I need to iron out some challenges. My car runs well, but just does not like to start. Sometimes it will start if I get a couple folks to push it.

I have been data logging and have reviewed several logs of when the engine was cranking and have found that the spark advance has been at 50 degrees, until the engine starts (stops cranking) and begins to run when it drops into a more normal range. This matches the trigger offset that was set in megatune in the base ignition screen. I confirmed this by looking at a past log where the trigger offset was set at 60 degree, and that is where the engine would go while cranking.

I have looked at Aaron Cakes settings (I think he is using MS2-extra), and they include a Cranking Advance setting. The version I have does not have the Cranking Advance setting. I do not think I can use the MS2-extra because I am using an older board.

Here is what I am working with MSII with a v2.2 board (with embedded code 2.89). One of the guys designed and built a VR signal conditioning board for the ignition. I am running 1 VR circuit with a stock CAS with 2 of the 24v teeth missing (180 degree apart).


I have come up with two solutions, and I am checking to see what you think.

1. I made a new spark map with two changes. First I started it at 1 instead of 500, thinking this would tell the ECU where to start when cranking. Second, I set the advance down to 8 degrees to get it started.

2. The next idea it to set the trigger offset to 0 (or maybe 8 degrees).

My questions for you are, is there something that has been missed in the set up that will correct the timing advance issue?

Next, can I run the car with 0 degrees in the trigger offset if this helps the crank advance?

Here are a couple of files for you to look at if you have a chance.

Thanks for your time ~ JEB

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Jeb - I don't see any of the files, here's a screen shot of what my spark settings screen looks like, if it's any help.

Please upload the msq file when you get a moment.

Cheers!

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Looks like I need to compress them to upload the files, here they are.
Thanks ~ JEB

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Wonko, I have taken a look and need to ask, what version of Megatune are you using?
I cannot find a "spark settings", I do have a basic and advanced ignition settings. Any thoughts?
JEB

rx7locost

JEB, I'm a real noob too. I am running the MSII on a rev 3.0 PCB, 2.1.0 firmware, and Tuner Studio in place of the Megatune.

If I check in both Megatune and Tunerstudio, under "Basic Setup" and then "More Ignition Settings"I have separate control of timing advance during cranking. I am surprised you aren't running 2.1.0 or later firmware. That may be where you can get the control you are looking for. It looks something like this:

pmrobert

I believe JEB's using B&G 2.89 code per his first post. I honestly cannot think of a reason why you can't use Extra code; you may not be able to implement all the bells and whistles but the enhancements for things you're already doing (timing, etc.) should be available to you with no problem. TunerStudio and Megatune both are controlled by the firmware version's associated .ini so what's visible in MT will be the same as what you see in TS so tuning software won't make any difference in the current circumstance.

However, I'm pretty sure that anything past 2.1.x of the firmware does surpass Megatune's field display limits or some such so there are problems with 3.x and above with Megatune. TunerStudio is the platform of choice if you're planning on taking advantage of continuing developments and enhancements.

Paging Ken!

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Well you guy know your stuff, GREAT!
I will ask the guy who set me up why he thought we could not go with extra.

As a temporary fix I am thinking of changing the max crank speed to 100 rpm (basically taking out the cranking cycle). Then I would change the spark table to start at 8 degrees

Any thoughts?

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Ok, this worked.
No it is not a perfect fix, but at least my car will start except...Now there is no fuel!?

Did I miss something stupid?

Any suggestions?
JEB

pmrobert

JEB, could you define "no fuel" a little better? I looked at the log and it shows injector opening being commanded. Is your fuel pump not coming on? Or ??? I'll look at the msq tomorrow AM. Dropping your cranking speed setting is a bandaid, not a definitive fix for your problem. You have an extremely cool project, were it me I'd want any oddities defined and fixed properly. No flame there, just an opinion.

-Mike

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Ok, I have played with it a bit more and I am getting a little fuel. The AFR is running between 19 and pegging itself. The fuel pump is running and I have the same pressure I had when the car was running well. Arrg.

No flame taken ~ I understand the cranking speed adjustment is a band aid. And, I do want to fix it right. I have a race next week and I am getting antsy.

I have added another log if that helps.
Thanks ~ JEB

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

Hi Jeb!

Glad to see you got it to turn over, at least!

Sorry I didn't get back here sooner, Saturday I did some canyon carving with friends in the 8 and today I took my 7 autocrossing for its first time... That was the first time the car has been out of the garage in 2 years!

I'm taking a look at your settings, and I do agree there's no reason for you not to be the MSnS-E code instead. I run a MSI on a 2.2 Board, so it should work fine with yours. Check the "Firmware" sticky Muythaibxr maintains. I'm running MegaTune 2.25, with the firmware recommended in that thread.

One thing I had to do during cranking was to set the "extra cranking enrichment" a lot higher than I expected to get my street ported engine starting well. I have mine set to 90% right now. Get to this under the "Crank/Warmup > More Cranking Stuff." It took a while to arrive at this number, but it seems really happy here. I do have to lower my idle though, so this may go down for me. I do have my cranking speed set to 300 RPM, and my VE table starts @ 500. Seems to start really well.

Cheers!

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

I have been going nuts with the intermittent ignition signal and a couple other issues. I would read and research and then go experiment. Nothing worked. I even got to the point of looking at the new Haltech Sprint Rotary Edition. But, as I read about the Haltechs I saw they had ignition signals too.

I said the hell with it and started working on things that I could fix. One of those issues being the positive battery cable which kept getting hot and smoking. What do you know, I had done a really crappy job with the cable. When I changed the end and soldered the other power supply cable to it, everything seemed to work. The engine turns over at about 400 rpm when cranking, and the ignition signal seems to be there all the time. Wahoo!

As a result, I got to go racing yesterday and the car ran without an issue. I still have a lot of tuning to do but all is working.

Thank you so much!

WonkoTheSane

iTrader: (2)

That. Is. Awesome!

I just got my car out to go autocrossing about 3 weeks ago! First time I got to drive an Rx7 for about 4 years I pretty much just limped it there and back and used it as an excuse to watch AFRs in response to throttle speeds, but it was glorious

Congrats!

muythaibxr

There's nothing about a 2.2 board that keeps you from running MS2/extra.

Ken

Kill No Cone

iTrader: (6)

Great! Thank you!