RonKMiller

....to soundproof my FD3S. I am sure this stuff is good, but it is ridiculously expensive and there has to be something out there that is close to the quality at a fraction of the price. I don't mind fabricating custom pieces to fit since I have a commercial sewing machine in my shop.

Any accoustical engineers out there in our ranks?

MastaCow

I think they sell something at McMaster Carr thats cheaper. Do a search under acoustic dampening or something...I can't remember.

RonKMiller

AHHH .. good 'ol McMaster Carr. Why didn't I think of that? I'll just pop the CD in right now! Thanks.

1_dollar_83_RX7

I would take a look on ebay and see how much you can get dynamat for. I know profit margin is high which is what makes it expensive. A pack of it at best buy is $30. When I used to work there I could get it for $6 which was 5% above the stores cost. I'm sure you can get it for around that much if you look around on the net.

DomFD3S

http://www.extremesoundproofing.com/...myproducts.htm (the composites section seems promising)

http://www.soundproofing.org/infopages/soundprf.html

http://www.buildingindex.com/company/pyrotek.htm

See if those links will help you.

RonKMiller

You da' man. Loaded Vinyl is the way to go.....except it weighs a pound per square foot. Seems like sandwiching regular old aluminum foil in between sheets is an excellent method too. Think I'll do my hood as well. I want a bank vault. Great stuff - thanks Dom.........

rynberg

Well, I'm an acoustical engineer, but it looks like Dom already set you up, but yeah, any loaded vinyl product will work. They're all about the same and have a 1 lb/sq ft weight. If you want to get fancy, there's also EAR composites or Soundmatt composites. They're probably not much cheaper than dynamat though.

As a side note, I would stay away from www.soundproofing.org, I've seen some info posted there that is just plain wrong.

If you have any questions, PM me.

SilverR1

This site looks like it's got some real good prices.

http://www.edesignaudio.com/ep/edead.htm

Here's another alternative.

http://www.b-quiet.com/

RonKMiller

Thanks - and now I know how to spell acoustical!

My plan is to dissect some Dynamat and replicate it.

In the interest of keeping things light (and inexpensive) I think I'll stay with plain old outdoor 1/4 " closed cell foam instead of the loaded stuff and laminate on some aluminum foil with 3M Super 77. This will go on the headliner, doors, center console and rear compartment storage bin area. My impression is that covering ALL of the the interior surfaces carefully and eliminating gaps will reap signifcant db reduction.

I will use the loaded vinyl on the hood, floor, firewall, rear deck and spare tire well.

I'm aiming for a 20 db reduction, and that is HUGE. Maybe the Bose system will actually sound outstanding since it will not be competing with background noise.........?

This all started since I took a ride in a 2002 Aston Martin DB7 yesterday. Unfortunately I was only a passenger.
I've never ridden in a convertible that quiet. Since they only make 3 or 4 a week they can afford to soundproof them VERY carefully. I guess that's what you get for 200 Large.

RonKMiller

Cool, thanks.

RecKleSs

I definitely need to use something on my FD, it's a little too loud inside.

artowar2

How about that spray-on stuff-- there's a brand called "Noisekiller Blue" or "Yellow" or "Black" (apparently there are different colors for different applications. And I believe that Dynamat sold something similar.

Trying to read between the lines of marketing hype, it sounds like some kind of plastic in a spray can.

Here's a link to a place that sells it:

http://www.newfoam.com/noisekill.asp

And here's a link to some Mitsu guy that used it on his car:

http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/D...eo/nzklr2.html

RonKMiller

Artowar2:

I think a spray makes sense especially in an area where there is no other access except sticking the nozzle in and let her rip......I get freaked out whenever a can of something costs almost (cough) $30. I would think that multiple layers of spray undercoating would be as effective, and I seem to remember that it's about $8.00 for a big can. (And I would not be a bit surprised if that's exactly what is in the $30 can - call me cynical, call me cheap, just don't call me a fool.)

You are so right about marketing hype! "Let's just re-badge it, make some claims that are impossible for anyone to refute, market the **** out of it and we'll retire rich!" Happens every day. That's exactly what
Johnson and Johnson just did with plain old every day cyanoacrylate, (super glue) except they put some purple dye in it and marked up the price about 700%.
It's now the best thing in the world to put on a cut (and it really is). Surgeons have been using it for a decade right out of the tube, right off the hardware shelf.

There seems to be quite a bit of art and very little science to this whole soundproofing thing, and I'm getting quite a schooling on it through my research.

My whole point in this exercise is that a quieter car just exudes luxury - something that Mazda never even tried to build into this car. It's the same reason I'm re-upholstering my stock seats with perforated leather, higher quality foam and dial in my Koni's at 1 MOST of the time. It's a Kansei thing for me.

Hell, maybe I'm trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but it's turning into an interesting pursuit:

The Fast and the..............Cushy? NAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

I am one sick puppy.

Mr. Stock

I think Mazda has an excuse. In the interest of saving weight, Operation Zero, they left out a quite a bit of noise insulation, especially in the R1.

I think you should weigh all the stuff that is used for noise suppression and give us a total for those of us concerned with both noise suppression and weight reduction.

Ed

Eric89GTU

Check out www.partsexpress.com for sound dampening materials... much cheaper than the name brand stuff, but works great.

Eric

RonKMiller

For sure - I think it's pretty labor intensive to do good soundproofing since it really needs to be pretty much hand fitted to work well.

I am guessing at this point it will be about 30 lbs. for a really thorough job. I'll also do db readings before and after - just to see how effective it is. 30 lbs is not that much, but if you race..........it's a ton.

RonKMiller

The only problem is that it comes in small sheets, by the time you end up cutting out pieces that fit there is a lot of waste. Good for a small job though. It looks like a Dynamat clone - probably works really well, and a fraction of the cost!

I'am going to start the project in a month, once I've gathered samples and done some more homework.
This is going to be a pretty big job by the time I strip out the carpet, headliner, etc.

WHOOSH

I used Dynamat, and in hard to reach places...
3M undercoating spraycan ($5)

DomFD3S

http://www.overboost.com/newsdisplay.asp?id=1952

This was just posted on Overboost. (Regarding hoodliners). Maybe you can contact them.

ech

Ron,

how are you getting your seats redone (where or what source for the leather)? I think a lot of us have cracking seats and are watching out for successfull replacement. So far I've only seen one comprensive repost w/ pictures, and that was from leatherseats.com.

When you get done I'm sure many of us would bennefit from (and greatly appreciate) info and pics, if you have the time.

rynberg

You're right, that is a HUGE reduction. While I think using the dynamat or similar material will definitely help with road, engine, and tire noise, you are going to hit a brick wall eventually. Eventually, sound transmission through the window glass, window and door seals, areas you missed, etc will become dominant. Still, I have no doubts that your finished car will be quieter. Gordon seems to be happy with his dynamatted car.

Like I said before, just find the cheapest loaded vinyl product you can find. That will be the most effective (and heavy) solution. Although, I think you have a good idea to do less important areas with closed-cell foam. It will be an improvement and will weigh and cost less.

RonKMiller

I am going to diy, I have a commercial sewing machine in my shop - piece o'cake. The leather is coming from - shoot - I forgot and am not at home now. Anyway, it's commercial grade vat dyed leather, and I am going to have it microperfed for the center sections only. It's higher quality than the stock stuff. It's damned expensive though, for the two different shades of grey and microperfing it will be about $1,000.00 for 110 Sq.ft.

I think the leatherseats.com look ok, but I don't go for the "gathered" leather look in a sports car. Mine will be VERY close to stock looking, with a few more sewn-in ribs for more grip in the butt and lumbar area. (ala Porsche - I steal every idea I can). Red stitching.
I am also using a denser foam than stock.

This is all part of a huge interior re-do with sound proofing, upholstry and glass cockpit VM1000 instruments. I will not even start on it until this winter - if I am lucky I'll be done by spring but will post pics throughout the process. It's like remodeling the interior of a small house........

DomFD3S

Ron,

Can you PM me or post in this thread where your source for leather is coming from? I have some ideas and I want to source some leather. Where did you get the commercial sewing machine from anyway? (Reason is because I'm looking for one as well). What kind of shop do you own?

Thanks Ron.

Dom

RonKMiller

Yo Dom:

www.Townsendleather.com. (I think) FAA $$ approved leather, high quality, will probably last ten years if properly taken care of.

I bought the sewing machine from a guy who was making motorcycle clothing and had to leave town fast!
You can get a good Chinese one for 1K brand new including the table and a 1/3 hp motor, they are nothing like the German brands, but for casual use they are excellent. Mine was "as new": $500.00. Juki's (I think it's Japanese) are excellent if you can find one. As good as the Germans.

My "shop" is just my personal garage setup at home, but I've got some pretty cool stuff there like a Bridgeport mill, (still learning how to use it) commercial sewing machine, some woodworking tools, tig welder, etc. Basic stuff for a ghetto shop..........

Too many tools, not enough time!

ech

Wow, cool project, keep us posted.