I've concluded that FD's simply are not designed w/ acoustics in mind...
07-07-04, 11:52 PM
#1
I've concluded that FD's simply are not designed w/ acoustics in mind...
Ok...I've heard quite a few diff sound systems and setups in FDs, including mine, w/ a pretty penny put in for some of the best speakers and what not.
Sure, they definitely improve the sound stage from stock....no questions asked. BUT, I have yet to ever step into an FD and just be like "wow."
On the other hand, my best friend owns a 2000 Volvo C70. Let me tell you, his STOCK sound system is more than the FD's can EVER be...no joke. I have components in the front & rear, the best it gets, incredible amp, etc. It sounds nice, but it's not impressive.
I jump in his car, using his stock speakers and stock headunit, and the imaging is simply AMAZING, and the sound quality is breathtaking. Granted, the car comes w/ something like 13 speakers, w/ each door having a 3-way component, and a monster center-speaker in the dash. But still, it's stock, and it is utterly unbelievable.
It's almost like you'd have to hack up your entire door panel and dash, and insert speakers in places that aren't stock to even come close to that kind of sound...anyone else know what I'm talking about/feel the same?? (and YES it frustrates me, given how much I spent on my system...)
Sure, they definitely improve the sound stage from stock....no questions asked. BUT, I have yet to ever step into an FD and just be like "wow."
On the other hand, my best friend owns a 2000 Volvo C70. Let me tell you, his STOCK sound system is more than the FD's can EVER be...no joke. I have components in the front & rear, the best it gets, incredible amp, etc. It sounds nice, but it's not impressive.
I jump in his car, using his stock speakers and stock headunit, and the imaging is simply AMAZING, and the sound quality is breathtaking. Granted, the car comes w/ something like 13 speakers, w/ each door having a 3-way component, and a monster center-speaker in the dash. But still, it's stock, and it is utterly unbelievable.
It's almost like you'd have to hack up your entire door panel and dash, and insert speakers in places that aren't stock to even come close to that kind of sound...anyone else know what I'm talking about/feel the same?? (and YES it frustrates me, given how much I spent on my system...)
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-07-04 at 11:57 PM.
07-08-04, 12:35 AM
#2
Re: I've concluded that FD's simply are not designed w/ acoustics in mind...
Originally posted by FDNewbie
On the other hand, my best friend owns a 2000 Volvo C70. Let me tell you, his STOCK sound system is more than the FD's can EVER be...no joke.
On the other hand, my best friend owns a 2000 Volvo C70. Let me tell you, his STOCK sound system is more than the FD's can EVER be...no joke.
07-08-04, 12:50 AM
#3
Re: Re: I've concluded that FD's simply are not designed w/ acoustics in mind...
Originally posted by SpeedKing
Know why? That car comes with a tuned Dynaudio system.
Know why? That car comes with a tuned Dynaudio system.
07-08-04, 01:05 AM
#4
Dynaudio is a company out of Denmark and they make some of the best speakers in the world.
http://www.dynaudio.com/
You can run their drivers in your car but it won't be cheap. Their System 360 3-way components list @ $1200.
http://www.dynaudio.com/
You can run their drivers in your car but it won't be cheap. Their System 360 3-way components list @ $1200.
07-08-04, 12:08 PM
#6
Speedking, thanks for the info. I checked out their website...definitely pimpy stuff haha.
Even though I haven't tried it (ie put it in my car to test it out), I have a feeling it still won't be all that by itself. When I look at the way the speakers are set, angled, mounted, and placed in my friend's C70, I can almost assure you the quality of the speakers themselves only goes so far...
Example: The main speaker (a sub I believe) is in the kickpanel of the door, which is actually mounted pretty high up, say, in line w/ your calf muscles. Right above it are the midbass speakers I believe (since it's a 3 way component speaker), and it's high enough so it clears your knee completely. Thus, this speaker sees no distortion from body parts blocking it. Then, above that, instead of putting the tweeter into the inside triangle of the sideview mirror, they placed it on the dash, facing the windshield. I've found that on every car I've ever seen w/ a speaker facing the windshield, sound is greatly improved, since it bounces off there, then travels back to you, the listener.
The center speaker is literally the size of...well, it's really big. It's at least 6" X 6".
Then you have all these hidden speakers all over the place... and the rear speakers are also a component system, but I think they're 2-way, not 3. They also are aimed to hit up off the windshield first...
So simply said, I really think even if I went and bought these speakers & drivers and used them in my car, I wouldn't come close to the sound in his car. This is definitely one of those cases where Dynaudio has a say in the manufacturing process as it is unfolding, telling Volvo where to place the sound system components...
Godzilla, I don't doubt you, and I'm not saying your sound system doesn't sound all that. But I have a system that I believe is even more higher end than yours...
I have the Boston Acoustics Z6 Audiophile Quality 6" ZSeries Component Speaker System in the front & rear...the front as a standalone component system, and the rear custom set to only be a midbass system. They're run off of a top of the line Alpine 4 channel amp.
As for subs, I have two 8" JBL 8w7 subs, which are simply THE best subs you can get. They're in a slot ported box, run off of a dedicated and very powerful Alpine mono-channel amp.
My point is, I didn't skimp ANYWHERE when it came to my sound system (granted, I'm lucky because I got a CRUCIAL deal on the entire setup), but the point is simple: yes, the sound system in my car is excellent. It kicks ***. BUT...the second I park my car and hop into my friend's C70, I swear I think to myself...wow...what a waste of $$. All that, running the best of the best, and it doesn't even come CLOSE to where my friend's soundstage is at. The funny part is, I was building up my sound system w/ the goal in mind of getting my car to sound like his haha (at least his old Volvo 850, which was still incredible sound). But no dice... You're just going to have to get in a C70 and try it out for yourself. But then again, don't do it...unless you want to be disappointed in your sound system...
Even though I haven't tried it (ie put it in my car to test it out), I have a feeling it still won't be all that by itself. When I look at the way the speakers are set, angled, mounted, and placed in my friend's C70, I can almost assure you the quality of the speakers themselves only goes so far...
Example: The main speaker (a sub I believe) is in the kickpanel of the door, which is actually mounted pretty high up, say, in line w/ your calf muscles. Right above it are the midbass speakers I believe (since it's a 3 way component speaker), and it's high enough so it clears your knee completely. Thus, this speaker sees no distortion from body parts blocking it. Then, above that, instead of putting the tweeter into the inside triangle of the sideview mirror, they placed it on the dash, facing the windshield. I've found that on every car I've ever seen w/ a speaker facing the windshield, sound is greatly improved, since it bounces off there, then travels back to you, the listener.
The center speaker is literally the size of...well, it's really big. It's at least 6" X 6".
Then you have all these hidden speakers all over the place... and the rear speakers are also a component system, but I think they're 2-way, not 3. They also are aimed to hit up off the windshield first...
So simply said, I really think even if I went and bought these speakers & drivers and used them in my car, I wouldn't come close to the sound in his car. This is definitely one of those cases where Dynaudio has a say in the manufacturing process as it is unfolding, telling Volvo where to place the sound system components...
Originally posted by Godzilla-T78
<- mb quart front and rears with 2 infinity 10inch subs.. sounds simply awsome.
<- mb quart front and rears with 2 infinity 10inch subs.. sounds simply awsome.
I have the Boston Acoustics Z6 Audiophile Quality 6" ZSeries Component Speaker System in the front & rear...the front as a standalone component system, and the rear custom set to only be a midbass system. They're run off of a top of the line Alpine 4 channel amp.
As for subs, I have two 8" JBL 8w7 subs, which are simply THE best subs you can get. They're in a slot ported box, run off of a dedicated and very powerful Alpine mono-channel amp.
My point is, I didn't skimp ANYWHERE when it came to my sound system (granted, I'm lucky because I got a CRUCIAL deal on the entire setup), but the point is simple: yes, the sound system in my car is excellent. It kicks ***. BUT...the second I park my car and hop into my friend's C70, I swear I think to myself...wow...what a waste of $$. All that, running the best of the best, and it doesn't even come CLOSE to where my friend's soundstage is at. The funny part is, I was building up my sound system w/ the goal in mind of getting my car to sound like his haha (at least his old Volvo 850, which was still incredible sound). But no dice... You're just going to have to get in a C70 and try it out for yourself. But then again, don't do it...unless you want to be disappointed in your sound system...
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-08-04 at 12:16 PM.
07-08-04, 05:08 PM
#7
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This is almost like comparing horsepower in a civic to a RX-7.
In the 7 years between the two cars production alot has changed audio-wise. Many cars now come with multi-speaker systems (unheard of in 1993) including tweeters, subwoofers and center speakers.
Some reviews of the C70 "Audiophiles can order a 14-speaker version. Complemented by Volvo's quiet engine, we came to view the C70 as a veritable concert hall on wheels."
So, in the end are you really comparing the same thing?
Bill
In the 7 years between the two cars production alot has changed audio-wise. Many cars now come with multi-speaker systems (unheard of in 1993) including tweeters, subwoofers and center speakers.
Some reviews of the C70 "Audiophiles can order a 14-speaker version. Complemented by Volvo's quiet engine, we came to view the C70 as a veritable concert hall on wheels."
So, in the end are you really comparing the same thing?
Bill
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07-08-04, 05:12 PM
#8
Bill, you're right, I'm not.
But I was naieve in the beginning to think that it was all about speakers...just upgrade your speakers... But it is like comparing apples & oranges...they're totally different platforms, and are working with *extremely* different dimensions as well. Can't have it all, now can we?
But I was naieve in the beginning to think that it was all about speakers...just upgrade your speakers... But it is like comparing apples & oranges...they're totally different platforms, and are working with *extremely* different dimensions as well. Can't have it all, now can we?
07-08-04, 05:12 PM
#9
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Further extolling the stock Volvo sound systems ...
I have a '94 Volvo 850 turbo sedan and the stock system in it is simply awesome. The front doors have woofers mounted up pretty high in the door; the rear doors have sizable 2-way speakers down at about ankle-level. There are small 2-way tweeters on the dash, one on each side. On the rear shelf there are 3-way 5.5x8 (something like that, slightly smaller than a 6x9) speakers that are capable of some serious bass. Everything is original, ten years old now, and it still sounds phenomenal. The headunit is original as well -- and it's not even the "premium sound" version.
Did I mention it's for sale? ;-)
I have a '94 Volvo 850 turbo sedan and the stock system in it is simply awesome. The front doors have woofers mounted up pretty high in the door; the rear doors have sizable 2-way speakers down at about ankle-level. There are small 2-way tweeters on the dash, one on each side. On the rear shelf there are 3-way 5.5x8 (something like that, slightly smaller than a 6x9) speakers that are capable of some serious bass. Everything is original, ten years old now, and it still sounds phenomenal. The headunit is original as well -- and it's not even the "premium sound" version.
Did I mention it's for sale? ;-)
07-08-04, 05:15 PM
#10
drcoopster, I know...I know... 
Before my friend got his C70, he had an 850! And I LOVED the sound in that car. I didn't think it could get any better. Lo and behold, the C70 took it to another level. Phenomenal is definitely the word to describe them...
Before my friend got his C70, he had an 850! And I LOVED the sound in that car. I didn't think it could get any better. Lo and behold, the C70 took it to another level. Phenomenal is definitely the word to describe them...
07-09-04, 09:04 PM
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there aren't a whole lot of cars out there that are designed with acoustics in mind it's usually an afterthought. Although the auto industry is starting to put in better systems now that sound systems are becoming very common. But in 93-95 hardly anybody thought about sound.
07-09-04, 09:04 PM
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turn off your stereo its only getting in the way of the symphony underneath the bonnet!.
ahhaha, seriously though, i agree with you to some extent, a fd wasnt exactly made with acoustics in mind, but if you take the hard yards, you can make your fd sound good. of course not many of us are prepared to cut metal or the like, because the truth is you'd have to to get optimal speaker placement.
also just like your engine a sound system needs to be expertly tuned in order to maximise performance.
my 2c.
ahhaha, seriously though, i agree with you to some extent, a fd wasnt exactly made with acoustics in mind, but if you take the hard yards, you can make your fd sound good. of course not many of us are prepared to cut metal or the like, because the truth is you'd have to to get optimal speaker placement.
also just like your engine a sound system needs to be expertly tuned in order to maximise performance.
my 2c.
07-10-04, 12:02 AM
#15
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I will be using a Dynaudio 3 way up front, 2 way in rear and 2 10's and I can bet my system clarity will be as good or better than that Volvo
I will be using a Dynaudio 3 way up front, 2 way in rear and 2 10's and I can bet my system clarity will be as good or better than that Volvo
07-10-04, 01:27 AM
#16
Originally posted by FDNewbie
Not unless you're going to be cutting up your dash, door panels, etc...and making custom speaker enclosures...
Not unless you're going to be cutting up your dash, door panels, etc...and making custom speaker enclosures...
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I will be using a Dynaudio 3 way up front, 2 way in rear and 2 10's and I can bet my system clarity will be as good or better than that Volvo
I will be using a Dynaudio 3 way up front, 2 way in rear and 2 10's and I can bet my system clarity will be as good or better than that Volvo
07-10-04, 08:29 AM
#17
I agree with FDnewbie.. I have Wael's old system with Bostpro 3 ways.. and I'm not happy with the sound.. My Celica and my Legend has better sound.. I need to re-think about the whole audio system in my car..
Ramy, your car sounded awesome.. I can't imagine what that c70 sounds like.
Ramy, your car sounded awesome.. I can't imagine what that c70 sounds like.
07-10-04, 09:34 AM
#18
Good sound quality is ALL about imaging, having your speakers placed so that when you close your eyes the sound seems to be totally surrounding your head, which can be done in a FD, back when I was heavy into stereo I sat in a convertible corvette that had near perfect imaging.
FDNewbie, you have to do some custom work to get the placement correct,(ie custom kick panels and such) but if it's good sound quality you want......
FDNewbie, you have to do some custom work to get the placement correct,(ie custom kick panels and such) but if it's good sound quality you want......
07-10-04, 12:19 PM
#19
Originally posted by herblenny
Ramy, your car sounded awesome.. I can't imagine what that c70 sounds like.
Ramy, your car sounded awesome.. I can't imagine what that c70 sounds like.
SPEAKING of which...I PMed ya Phil. Check it out hehe
20B 3rd Gen, I know what your saying...I have it so right now you really can't tell where the sound is coming from...and the awesomest part is you can hear small sounds coming from different areas...
BUT...I don't know if this is the right term, but I don't think the FD has enough space for the sound to completely "mature," if you will...before it hits your ears.
The Volvo LITERALLY sounds like you're in a concert hall that's playing live for you, and ONLY you. It's on a totally different level...
Like SpeedKing said, I just don't think it's possible to replicate that kind of sound in the FD w/ just speakers. Lots of fab work has to be done...
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-10-04 at 12:23 PM.
07-10-04, 07:33 PM
#21
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
If your imaging is good and your still not satisfied, add more speakers
. Granted it's hard to get better sound from a car with 6 speakers than car with 13 speakers, but you can boost power levels try and compensate
If your imaging is good and your still not satisfied, add more speakers
. Granted it's hard to get better sound from a car with 6 speakers than car with 13 speakers, but you can boost power levels try and compensate
Adding any more speakers involves custom work...and that was my point. You can't get incredible sound like that just by upgrading speakers in your FD. You gotta actually cut her up and add speakers in new locations...(which I'm absolutely not about to do).
Sidenote: I LOVE your SN hehe. If/when I get a 20B swap, I'd be flaunting it all over the place too! hehe
07-10-04, 10:42 PM
#23
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
Remy you don't remember me do you? I was the black guy with Phil @ RR
Remy you don't remember me do you? I was the black guy with Phil @ RR
I did notice the B-ham, AL under your name, but I wasn't sure if you knew Phil. So you got a 20B, huh? Damn you're lucky lol. HOOK ME UP YO!!
07-11-04, 12:38 AM
#25
Ramy,
You are right about the FD.. they aren't made for sound.. it will a lot of work.. for example.. the door speakers.. Only way I could think of is to increase the depth.. but that would take some fabbing.. I curreny have 4inch and I think I need to go bigger.. I'm not sure 5 inch will fit..
Rear you would need somesort of enclosure type to surround the speaker.. I could barely hear my rears.. Only decent thing is my sub.. and seems like only one is kicking.. I need to hook both up..
Right now, I'm having other issues too.. my wiring for my gauges are all melted.. Really strange.. I'm lucky that my car didn't catch on fire.. Phew!
Oh.. I know John.. Hes a good guy.. whos going to owe me $100 bucks in Sept.
You are right about the FD.. they aren't made for sound.. it will a lot of work.. for example.. the door speakers.. Only way I could think of is to increase the depth.. but that would take some fabbing.. I curreny have 4inch and I think I need to go bigger.. I'm not sure 5 inch will fit..
Rear you would need somesort of enclosure type to surround the speaker.. I could barely hear my rears.. Only decent thing is my sub.. and seems like only one is kicking.. I need to hook both up..
Right now, I'm having other issues too.. my wiring for my gauges are all melted.. Really strange.. I'm lucky that my car didn't catch on fire.. Phew!
Oh.. I know John.. Hes a good guy.. whos going to owe me $100 bucks in Sept.