veo614

They're banning the sale of HIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My cousin (an AV6 guy) sent me a link. We were gonna buy HID's in a year or two, but I guess we gotta buy now.

here is the link:

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...0&pagenumber=1


if it doesn't work, copy and paste. this is big news, all.
my cousin has been haggling with different companies. The lowest-priced HIDS thus far he's found is by Liteswap.com and groupbuycenter.com




why dont they make tycs for us? dayam.

InsaneGideon

Uh oh... Well I was looking at getting these anyway:

http://www.liteswap.com/Merchant2/me...y_Code=DualHID

Has anyone tried these in the stock FD pop-up housings/lenses?

Thanks,
-IG

DomFD3S

I want to see an actual ruling, posted by the DOT (or other governing boards).

Flyrx7

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, and there going to start taxing the usage of the internet too!
I'm with DomFD3s, show us some USDOT ruling.

Frank

Sprockett

No ****. DOT findings need to be posted before I believe it. It's not like they are going to make Audis, BMWs, Mercedes, etc. illegal for sale, and I doubt they will go back to Halogen.

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I though there was no such thing as an HID kit that retained the low AND high beam... is that what these "dual beam" kits do? FDs are an H4 bulb, right?

TurboFD

there are still some really bright hologens..

93 R1

They are probably going to outlaw the "HID look" bulbs and conversion kits since they aren't DOT legal now anyway. Colored bulbs and HID kits that only consist of bulbs and ballasts are not DOT approved.

The ONLY DOT approved HID conversion is one specifically made for the vehicle that includes a complete upgrade. Meaning bulb, housing, reflector, wiring, etc...

This is directly from the MD state inspection handbook.

InsaneGideon

Lately, they've come out with a few methods of getting hi/lo.

One brand has little mirror wings that fly out via solenoid for hi beam reinforcement. I believe the Cats (or at least someone) use a solenoid to move the bulb in & out of the "focal point" (which is a misnomer for the FD's crappy stock lenses).

More on topic:

I haven't seen anything on DOT/NHTSA's site about selling being illegal... Where's this "letter" sent to Catz?

Anyways, phillips/hella ballasts aren't supposed to be used in non-oem kits but, they're there. If this is true, we'll just call the retrofit kits "OEM Rebuilt" kits instead

-IG

kyle@insight

No way they'll outlaw HIDs. The stupid ricer bulbs maybe (and i hope so ), but they're not going to outlaw HIDs.

T88NosRx7

iTrader: (1)

I hope not.

dclin

iTrader: (4)

As 93 R1 said, they are illegal now to retrofit anyways. What the NHTSA is trying to do is make it illegal to *sell* retrofit kits, like the kind that Catz, etc sells.

Supposedly APC just got slapped with a hefty fine relating to something like this (hell, they should be fined just for putting their hideous products on the street anyways).

http://me-mag.com/t_news_pick.cfm?sid=2492

They can't do anything about people buying the individual parts (basically the HID bulb and the ballast), and modifying it to fit your vehicle. This part comes under state law as it always has been, and you have to deal with that with your local/state authorities should they want to bug you about it.

BicuspiD

I just got off the phone with G-Garage, the importer for Mcculloch HID lights and he did indeed receive a "cease and desist" letter from the NHTSA requiring all importation and sales of HID retrofit/conversion kits to stop by 8/15/03. In addition, he said there may be a recall effort where the supplier would have to buy back all previously sold units at retail cost! (Its a shame mine will have been "stolen" by then and unavailable to be recalled . I am awaiting further confirmation and a copy of the actual letter, so I'll post more info as I get it.

bureau_c

I'm sorry, but I *still* think this is bullshit, or at least a gross misrepresentation of what is really happening. What if I'm building a track-only race car based on a stock vehicle? I still can't buy an HID kit for it? If they were really going to do that they could do the same thing for damn near every mod we put on our cars.

Now, are some of these kits being sold as, or at least with the implication that they're DOT-legal when they're really not? I could see them going after a situation like that, but simply banning all HID kits, when more and more new cars are sold with HIDs stock...that just makes no sense at all.

jds

dclin

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I don't like it either. If anything, it may make things even more dangerous for those fitting HID to their vehicles. No matter what NHTSA does, people will still want HID on their cars, and most likely incorrectly retrofit HID parts to their cars.

For those that are not familiar with automotive lighting - you can't just drop in a bulb and expect it to work correctly (proper beam pattern, etc). Even the best retrofit kits are putting HID bulbs into lamp housings that were not designed for such, but at least there are a few companies that go to great lengths to make the beam pattern as close to as it should be.

Automotive headlamps are deigned for one specific bulb for each given application, and placing a different bulb (in this case, an HID bulb) that is off (by even a mm) or has a different light emmiting characteristic can cause unwanted glare and/or less light directed where it should be.

NHTSA is going after these HID retrofit manufacturers under the assumption the retrofit manufacturers cannot or do not want to create a beam pattern that is compliant with federal guidelines. As I said before though, there a handful HID retrofit companies that do put in the effort to ensure the output of their kits is close/near identical to federally standards.

With this new 'law', NHTSA is taking away this option, and leaves open the possibilty for more incorrectly retrofitted HID systems. IF they really were smart, they would set federal guidelines to how a HID retrofit kit should be fitted, or - more specifically - so that these kits meet federal beam pattern guidelines. Government at work - gotta love it.

rx7speed811

*NEWS FLASH!*

midpipes and downpipes are illegal too, and so are front mount intercoolers and blowoff valves.

hurry up and order them now, especially if you were planning to buy them within the next year or two!

this is not big news, all

DomFD3S

Well, assuming that these companies are ordered to cease and desist,...that means that the ONLY HID kits allowed in the market, would be solely limited to OEMs? (Keep in mind that most OEMs source their products from companies like Denso, Mitsubishi, Hitachi, etc.)

That means that the government is killing off competition from the aftermarket industry. That doesn't seem fair at all. I don't see how this can be legal?

That means that we will be STUCK paying high OEM prices....with no alternatives whatsoever.

This CANNOT be legal.

Richard (BicuspiD), get a copy of that letter. I want to see it and then fire it off to SEMA.

JimmyJimboJet

exactly. this might have a huge effect on some of you, depending on your local law enforcement. but IMO, i don't think it's something to get your panties all in a bunch over

SoCalLove

^^ yup. I don't think it ain't gunna happen either.

cluosborne

I checked their website, searched Google's news site, and found nothing that specifically stated that HID kits are banned. If this is the case, the public should receive the same announcement as the vendors and manufactuers.

BicuspiD

Not neccessarily, because it has ALWAYS been illegal to retrofit HID bulbs into non HID designed housings. The public is informed, to that extent. You can't even "graft" say the front of a Mercedes w/HIDs onto another car and be legal with the lights, since they were not OEM equipment on the actual car. I looked into putting OEM HID's from another car into my Neon ages ago, and that falls under the same section. I still have not seen the actual letter yet, and noone has returned my call to the NHTSA, so we'll see how this pans out. It may actually lower pricing from the dealers and make it available in more lower end cars. Hell the Focus SVT has an HID option now. Manufacturers are realizing this is a desired option and that they can make easy money on it, maybe it will proliferate like air conditioning did.

Ed88convert

Welllll,

Here is the link to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration press releases for the last 3 months. Doesn't say anything about headlights at all.

Maybe the release is older, or there is no release, but I suspect if the NHTSA were going to ban these things, they'd tell somebody about it.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/nhtsa/announce/press/index.cfm

DomFD3S

Ed88convert,

You're several days too late.

Read:
https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...&highlight=HID

The release is a recent inquiry. Definitely not old. And there DEFINITELY was a letter sent out by the NHTSA.

enuttage

After reading through this thread and Dom's other one, I'd really, really like to know what lit a flame under the NHTSA's *** all of the sudden.

Based on the applications of aftermarket lighting and the NHTSA's specificity in naming fog lamps, faux HID kits and replacement bulb color I'd say that the law applies to a pretty select group of automobile owners and parts suppliers. Namely import tuners/compact tuners and the off-road crowd.

My next question would be to ask, "Of the public complaints on file, how many can be traced back specifically to said causes?" In other words, how many complaints have been filed based on a driver seeing an Audi coming up on their tail with full HID and fog lamps glaring, and filed a complaint about being blinded. The Audi clearly meets the code in sec. 108, but where is this differentiation noted in the public complaints on file?

Once I know what the source of the sudden impetus for action on enforcement of these rules is, I'll have a much better understanding of what the Feds are trying to accomplish.

If Senator "X" is pushing hard, then I wouldn't put it past them to be aiding an attempt to get certain "unpleasant elements" off the street. And that would correspond to increasingly stiff penalties and open-ended legislation regarding street "racing", etc. If that's the case, then I'll be irked to the point of twitching.

If it's a simple question of traffic accidents and fatalities rising due to temporary loss of night vision because of improperly mounted lights (and they can prove this), then I'll rest much more easily.

Scenario one is a thuggish political tactic. Scenario two is the organization doing what they're supposed to be doing.

I'm all about keeping it safe and making sure HID kits are properly manufactured and installed, but that better be all they're worried about here.

My piece,

paz,

-E

DomFD3S

I can understand some of the concerns.

With the flood of aftermarket HID kits, I can understand that there is some concern. Keep in mind that these HID kits, come in a variety of Kelvin temperatures, ranging from roughly 4100k (which is the best temperature for visibility. Comes stock on BMWs) to 6000+k, which has the bluish tint color, but lacks visibility. Coupled w/ the Xenon bulbs, which resemble HIDs. And also, w/ lights w/ zero light cutoff or just improperly adjusted lights (the ones that end up pointing towards the sky)...

You can already see the confusion (and the need for some form of regulation).

Not only that, but SUVs/trucks w/ HIDs. These guys are generally the real culprits because they are the ones who end up truly blinding drivers.

Personally, I think some regulation is necessary.

If anything, SUVs/trucks should not be allowed to have HIDs. On the sole basis of height, their headlights are already directly into a normal cars line of sight. With HIDs, we'll completely blinded. And if some of us are savvy enough to use the mirror switch on the rear view mirror,...not everyone is smart enough to use that damn thing. It plainly blinds every driver in front of the SUV.