OK

I tried to fire up the beast for the first time yesterday. (S5 1/2 bridge rebuild with t04-S, new injectors, new...well pretty much new everything but ask if you'd like to know)

I loaded a base map from BDC, tried cranking and got nothing.

Im using an E6X with Halwin 1.2

Now, after cranking for mmm 5 minutes I pulled the leading front plug. Its covered in grease (fresh rebuild ) but not a HINT of gasoline on it.

At this point I hooked up my timing light and tried cranking again. Interestingly I would only get spark sometimes. It would be cranking and sparking (the timing light going off) and then stop all of a sudden, then pop back up for a couple sparks, then nothing.

I tried changing gain and filter settings all of which would either net me NO signal (no spark and no change of location of the indication arrow while cranking) or some. the best results I got with 2 gain and 2 filter.

I tried adding fuel to the areas of the map where the indicator was moving between (when it would move that is) but I still can't seem to get any fuel IN to the engine (ie. the plugs were not covered in gas)

I'm getting spark, I checked for voltage TO the injectors and got very little (cycled between .2 and .6 volts DC while cranking)

Is this just a triggering issues? I'm goign to try moving the magnets closer to the tips of the teeth tonite and see if anything changes.

Its pissing me off because I can have the settings all the same, crank, get spark, continue cranking (without stopping) and get nothing, then some, then nothing.

Oh well, what fun would it be if it started right up anyhow?

Any suggestions?

 

I had a similar problem with mine. It was only getting spark sometimes. I found that out by putting it close to a ground while cranking, there was no spark so I went to grab it and shocked the **** out of myself . I traced it down to my trigger wires from the haltech not being correctly wired to the CAS.

 

I see.....

Well my CAS is hooked up as per hitman's webpage. This also matches up with the way to wire them according to K2RD and claudio from this site (can't bring up a link to the thread since the search feature is being gay lately)

But they are as follows:

CAS--------------Haltech
Red -----------> Yellow
Green --------> Green
White---------> Red
White/Black--> Blue

The only place I've found that shows to hook them up any differently is the actual .pdf file on the halwin CD-ROM....every other RX-7 specific source shows this way.

Anyways I'm on my way home so I'm going to try and bump the magnets a little closer and play with filter and gain to see if I can get something consistent..........I'll also maybe try running the injector trims right up to +12% and see if I can't get ANY fuel into the engine...

Edit: Also, I'm runnign:
trigger angle - 82
tooth offset - 11 .............could these settings need to mucked with also? I know that Claudio listed a trigger angle of 65 and offset of 3 in his setup thread and says that they differ per vehicle, are mine way out to lunch?

 

Seems all the Ontario Haltech guys are having Issues!

I had the same problem with not being able to get the timing to pick up, and it turns out my leading coil was fried.

 

Hehe, my haltech is running 100%

First you should be using the newest halwin 1.26, or even better, haldos if you can.

don't mess with the gains and stuff unless you are having pickup issues, identified by watching the rpm in software. If it doesn't register there is probably some connection problem betwenn the cas and haltech. If it registers ok (like 120-180 during crank) but jumps to 16K once in a while that's trigger noise. You'll have to deal with that by playing with gains/shielding or separitng wires, or swapping cas

It sounds like you are not getting fuel? Are the injectors disabled? is your fuel pump priming audibly? are the fuses intact?

 

#1, if the Haltech "sees" RPM's, then there is nothing wrong with the ignition input - i.e. the CAS.

#2, can you verify you're getting fuel?
Pull the spark plugs out, and you should get nice puffs of fuel shooting out the holes when you crank.

It really sounds like you're not getting any or too little fuel in the engine.
Also, what maps are you adjusting for fuel???
The main fuel map is IGNORED during cranking, so you need to be adjusting the cranking primer map if anything...


-Ted

 

First, I was having pickup issues because the RPM gauge in Halwin would read 0 during cranking then skip to 5-7000 then to 0. I fixxed the issue and am getting a constant 188 while cranking now.

For those saying I'm not getting fuel, you are absolutely right (as dry plugs would indicate )

I pulled the TB eklbow off last night and sprayed some gas right inside....cranked and got some bucking and popping. So all I need is some fuel right?

Heres where it bends my brain a little.

For fuel I'm running:

BRAND NEW RC engineering injectors (750cc and 1000cc)
BRAND NEW walbro pump (hear it priming and its running while cranking)
BRAND NEW regulator (40 psi base pressure that holds during cranking)
BRAND NEW injector clips (and wiring, duh )

Fuel IS in the fuel rails at the injectors, its just not getting through them.

I pulled the clip from the front rotors primary injector and plugged it into an old stocker just for kicks.....when I crank it over I can't feel the injector clicking while holding it, nor can I see the little pin moving AT ALL.

I checked over the settings in the Haltech and they are set up for 4A peak (i'm using low impedance injectors) and the 3A fuse in the Haltechfuse block (which the manual says to replace with 10A if using multi low imp. injectors) is not blown.

Is something fried in my unit?

Also, where do I get 1.26?
And thanks for the advice on the cranking map, I was adjusting the main fuel map

edit: also, my injectors are wired up with red/greenstripe power wire teeing to one side of ALL injectors, then each smaller wire running the other side of each. (1 to front primary 2 to rear primary 3 to front sec. 4 to rear sec.) Is taht right?

edit2: Also, according to Haltech if I'm not getting a home signal, there will be NO injection of fuel, is it possible (kep in mind that my RPM on the gauge in Halwin reads 188 perfectly while cranking) that I'm getting RPM signal but no home signal at all?

 

Sometimes it reads RPM correctly and its still not getting a home, raise your gain one notch on the home trigger, that might help.

Also, are you sure you wired the injectors in correctly, i know you indicated that you used Inj1 to FP, Inj2 to RP, Inj3 to FS and Inj4 to RS, but what about the colors? did you use light blue for Inj1, blue/red for Inj2, green/red for Inj3 and pink for In4?

You get v1.26 (and ALL haltech software and documentation) from the Haltech website in the Download section. It still amazes me that people dont go there first and download all they can, since almost all manufacturers have all the necesary info on their sites.

Finally, is your map for 750/1000cc injectors? how many mS of injection time do you see while cranking? Is your fuel setup correct? stagging mode, ignition dive by 2? Your trigger angle sounds a little high, maybe your CAS is not stabbed right and your timing is way off. Have you checked where the timing is with the timing light? you can do this while someone cranks the motor, at a stable 188 rpms and good battery voltage and with the timing lock ON to -5 degrees you should line up the marks around 65+/- a few degrees on those engines with the CAS correctly inserted.

Oh, and one more little quirk, are the injectors ENABLED? in the fuel setup theres a check box that says "enable injectors". Might have missed that one.

 

Will do

Yes I checked them last night with a mirror (haven't pulled the UIM off yet) and the colours are correct. Does it matter which side of the injector gets + and which gets -? I was under the ipression they didn't care.

I thought I could, but I tried last night and it didn't work....I thought there was another source but I guess I'll just try later.

Yes, I gave BDC all my particulars before he made my base map.

9.6ish according to the gauges in Halwin. But as I mentioned with two days worth of cranking, not a DROP of gas has entered the engine. (edit: BTW I have the injector trim cranked all the way up to 12.5% in an attempt to get more gas in. But I cranked that value before I realized the injectors were just plain not firing)

Its set to stagging, but the ignition dive I have no idea?

The angle value sounds high to me also, but I dunno, it came in the map soooo and it gets spark all day long. CAS is installed properly, I checked the timing (to zero the timing) while cranking and it appears DEAD NUTS on.

That one sounds good. I'll check that out tonite........I had a feeling it was going to be something reeeeally stupid. I'll check that out.

 

Ok, so you have to check if the injectors are enabled, which would cause the thing to absolutely not fire a drop of gas. But!, if in the event that that isnt the problem, here is another thought, injecting 9.6mS on cranking with a pair of 750's is very high, plus on that note, having the trim cranked all the way up would make that 9.6mS into around 10.7mS at cranking and thats WAY too much fuel, so if its not that the injectors are not disabled, i would check to see if the pins on the injector connectors are making contact with the pins on the injector body, cause all things point to no pulses on the injectors to put fuel in. Also, the fuse that controls the injector power wire (thick red/green) is one of the other 2 fuses from the fuse block (the Haltech ECU fuse is the 3A, but the other 2 are for the fuel pump and the other for the 12V power that runs along the harness, give those a look as well.

Also, if you are using low imp. injectors, go to the Input/Output options and set the voltage to 8A on all drivers just to be on the safe side.

Edit:
OH! wait, i just realized something, if you are seeing Injector pulse on the data page, that means the injectors are enabled, if they werent that value would be zero, and since you are seeing RPMs that means the haltech is pulsing the injectors. So, im guessing is something else.

 

Well ****

I was hoping it would just be that they were disabled.......

So, tonite I'll check that the red/green wire has 12V. And play with the gains on the home signal only to see if they change anything. But FWIW, I tried messing with both initally and I'm pretty sure Ive been through all values for both home and trigger. But I'll try moving the home settings around........

If I have no power to the injectors, (which my first test would tell me there isn't) how can I test to make sure the Haltech injector driver isn't kaput?

 

I kinda thought so. But since I was getting zero fuel, I figured LOTS would be better

New injectors, new clips, new wiring. They're making contact. And as I stated before, I tried the plug on another old stock injector and got ****-all as well. No clicking, no pin moving in and out, no nothing.

FWIW, no fuses were blown, but I have not checked for voltage at each fuse. The haltech is obviously getting power as is the fuel pump.......so I dunno on that.

Tried that last night also to no avvail. And I make sure to make my changes, shut off the ECU, turn it back on and verify the changes I made are still there before I try to start it again.

If this Haltech is broken I'm going to be sooooooooooo pissed off.

 

Well, I checked out a few things:

1) Power to the injectors through the 10A fuse.....then to the injector clips them selves. 12.6ish volts at the injector clips.
2) Yes injectors are enabled
3)Went through every combination of Gain and filter settings on the Home signal..........that took a while

But I'm really confused at this...

4)Tested for continuity between ground and the ground side of the injector clip while cranking. I don't even hear any slight blips from the DMM. All I get is a constant reading of about 540 (don't know what that means on the continuity setting? is it resistance?) while the key is simply on, and then 538ish while cranking.

And still not a SINGULAR drip of gasoline. I know I didn't luck out and recieve 4 dead RC engineering injectors that came complete with flow test print outs....and even like I said I tried a known working one in the plug also.

I have no idea what else to check. I should be getting gas........

Any ideas? Just give me something else to try......I'm about ready to rig up a damn funnel system with gasoline just to hear this thing idle! lol

 

As Claudio said, IGN divide by should be set to 2. Also as stated make sure you are in batch firing mode, with staging. It sounds like everything is good, don't worry about your trigger angle if your timing is dead on (mine is 78), probably just means cas is stabbed one tooth off or something.

Are the injectors good? What is the resistance across their coils? If they've been sitting a long time they could be stuck.

 

IGN divide is 2
Im in batch mode with stagging
Injectors are new from Speedmachine about two months ago. I'll check the resistance shortly. They've been in fuel flow for about 4 weeks (pressure tested the system at that time before installing the manifolds)

I'll get back shortly with the resistance. But I've tried a known working injector in the plug on the car, cranked got nothing. Then I tried jumping the same used (but known to function) injector with 12V right off the battery and it clicked open just fine.

 

Okay, it sounds like the problem is narrowed down to the fuel injectors not firing...

Here's a quick&dirty test...
Pull the fuel injectors from the engine and secure them to the fuel rails - wire zip ties or pieces of wire work for me.

Have a friend to help you with this...
Have them crank the engine and you watch the fuel injectors to see if they are firing?
If not, try and connect +12VDC and ground to see if you can manually get them to fire.
Be very careful, as we're mxing electrical sparks and raw fuel here!


-Ted

 

Thanks Ted.

I basically did this test already minus the fuel.....But got nada.

The resistance on the front primary injector (still haven't tugged the mani's) is 2.7ohms.

But get this....after Nik's response about batch mode with staging I thought, hmmmI thought there was a batch mode anda a staging mode, not one WITH the other?

So I went and checked and sure enough there were two modes. Now I had been in staging mode the whole time, but had tried batch earlier last night for kicks....still got nothing.

BUT!

I tried "multi-point" mode just for ***** and giggles and wouldn't you know, the ******* thing started right up! Ran pig rich burying the wideband, but it ran!

Now, this morning before work I tried switching it to batch mode, and I could get it to fire and run decent........and back to staging mode and I could get it to fire - but in staging mode however it ran REALLY weird. Sounded like it was on one rotor.

Why would it do this? Is this an indication of...................?

edit: Oh and I still haven't zero'd the timing while its running...it would idle last night and my dad had gone to sleep when it fired up. I'll get in running in multipoint tonite and verify the timing is zero'd, then move back to staging mode and see whats up.

 

Just got thinking....in multipoint mode, would it have been firing my secondaries also? May have been why it was hard to idle.....

This just boggles my mind though.

 

It sounds like the injectors are not wired correctly?

If it really is running on one rotor in batch, it's most likely front (or rear) rotor has both injectors firing, while the other side is not.

You can confirm this when you pulled the fuel injectors and watch them squirt under cranking?


-Ted

 

Well, rather then diasassemble to that point, tonite before doing anything I'm going to pull both leading plugs, inspect them, clean them and re-install.

I'll try starting in batch mode and then shut down, then pull the plugs again and see if there's gas/combustion on both.

I don't think they're wired incorrectly (but anything's possible) its just REALLY strange to me that NO gas came out AT ALL in batch or staging mode, then I went to multipoint (that was the ONLY change made at that point) and it fired right up. Then go back to staging mode (again, ONLY change made) and its firing the injectors without trouble.

I have yet to modify any wiring since the initial install, I have only played with settings in the Haltech and checked for voltage at certain places.

Edit: the odd running may simply be the fact that its sooo damn rich its not even funny, or many other things. I'm simply stating that when it was in multipoint it seemed better but in either mode when it was running it was VERY rich and didn't want to stay running. Lots of tuning to do


I'll triple check what I have and post it tonite

 

It sounds like something strange is going on with your haltech settings. Did you get the newest version of halwin? I highly recommend running the dos software exclusively if your computer can do it.

 

OK

I have checked my wiring on the injectors again and I have light blue (1) as primary front rotor, dark blue (2) as primary rear rotor, green (3) as secondary front rotor and pink (4) as secondary rear rotor. And + power to all 4.

This is correct?

I tried installing ver. 1.26 but it wouldn't unzip on my old comp. Im going to need to grab a USB to com adaptor and get my laptop hooked up to it.

Either way though..............STILL in stagging mode I get no fuel. I get duration on the gauge page, but no fuel, no injection whatsoever.

Switch to multi point and I have lots. In multipoint during cranking I can feel the front primary click, so I know it works.

Would running 1.26 fix this hiccup? I have no idea what is wrong.

Also, I cannot run sequential mode either, it says that setting is not allowed with some other setting I am using

I know I need to run in staging mode but its like whatever driver that setting uses is burnt? Multi point and batch cause soem fuel actino, but nada in staging?

I'm getting frustrated here lol

Here's a link to it running in multipoint once it decided to idle, and before my WORKING timing light arrived (so timing wasn't zero'd in the vid). I still had a few issues at that point (missing t-bolt clamp on TB adaptor from sprayign gas into it and I think the Jspec's EGR on the LIM is actually causing a big vac leak thats sucking in exhaust gas) but is there anything anyone's keen ear can pickup on in the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ozpit8NtGE

 

Ok, here is what i see from looking at that video, the idle seems good as far as AFRs go since ported motors sometimes dont like running at anything above 13.0, BUT!, the fact that you're idling it at such low vacuum (i saw about 5in/Hg on the gauge??) tells me that you HAVE TO fix the vacuum leaks, this is #1 priority. Second, care to post a screenshot of your fuel map with the datapage next to it at idle the way you have it setup now so i can see whats going on? or would you be willing to send me your map so i could look at it?

I if you got it to idle setting it up as multipoint and not stagged, i might be inclined to think something might be wrong somewhere, either with wrong wiring, or locked up injectors (its been known to happen), or heck, maybe its one of those instances where unfortunately you got a wiring harness with pins/wires in the wrong order.

So, let me know what you'd like to do. I know its frustrating, but the simple fact is there's always an answer, it can elude you, but its always there.

PS. Setup looks nice, i hope we can fix it.

OH! i just remembered, on 1/2 bridge or bridged motors, vacuum at idle will tend to be that low, so maybe bumping up the timing helps with this situation too. But first lets figure out whats going on.

 

OK.

I blocked off the EGR and got a BIT lower idle (1900ish) and 12-13in of vac while idling.

Here's the perplexing part (giogn to tear the UIM off tonite and inspect priary conenctions and the inejctors themselves)

In staging mode while trying to start it on sunday (anotehr member was there to witness this.....Feds) I cranked it with the plugs out AND GOT GAS!!! Yay right?

Well I still couldn't get it to fire on its own. Not even burp. So we grabbed a can of quick start from the shop and went at it...

With the quick start, I could ramp the engine up to ~2500rpm (its running on starting fluid for all intents and purposes) MASH the gas pedal and it just dies. not even attempting to stay running.

Try it in batch mode - same deal.

Try it in multipoint.............vroom

Now, if its firing all 4 (accroding the manual thats what multipoint does ?) Then I should be FLOODING the **** out of this thing at idle running a map designed for staging right? I'm thinking the primaries are either not getting clean signal, locking up, or fartign aroudn in some way. Because I -DID- get at least one confirmed shot of fuel from staging mode while cranking. But when running in multi point if the pri.'s weren't working I'd only be runing on a pair of 1000cc's (awful clsoe to 750) which would explain the accuracy of the map during idle.

But the sad part was after all that, we pulled the plugs and put it back in staging mode and tried to fire. We got no gas at all unlike earlier that day.

Also - I set the timing again while it was running and ended up with the same total trigger angle I had as when I ran it last time (54 as opposed to the 82 the map was loaded with) so I know that the ignition is accurate and gives me repeatable results.....now to get the same from the fuel....

 

Can you confirm the TPS does not see 100% at any time?
If it does while cranking, it will shut off the fuel injectors...


-Ted