Haltech Totally confused on setting the CAS and ignition settings
07-22-02, 01:09 PM
#1
Totally confused on setting the CAS and ignition settings
Ok on Hitman site he says line up the 2 pointers toward the screws holding the cover on, but mazda says line up the tally marks. So I lined up the tally marks on the CAS, which one is the recommended way to do it...
I read this on the Haltech group courtesy of Matt (HITman) thanks dude but Im confused as hell!
I know the pulley is on correctly cause the keyway on the eshaft points almost toward 9 o clock when its dead on leading (yellow)
So If I get maps from people where theres were set to the other instructions (lining up pointer to screws etc) I can just change the igntion setup to these details?
I read this on the Haltech group courtesy of Matt (HITman) thanks dude but Im confused as hell!
Do you want to know the way to do it so the CAS stays in the exact same position that Mazda says to install it.... the way it would have come from the facotry.
1. Rotate engine until Yellow Mark lines up with the pointer.
2. Remove CAS
3. Down near the gear on the CAS is a punch mark. Not the ones with the roll-pin, but an actual punch mark. Line this up perfectly with the notch sticking out of the alloy body of the CAS.
4. Insert CAS without knocking the CAS out of alignment. It will turn a little as the gear engage which is normal.
5. Lock down the 10mm bolt with it approx. in the middle of the slot.
Haltech settings for above installation, CAS wired direct to Haltech, no MSD8509's (as it should be).
Int. Reluctor and Gain of 2 for both Trigger and Home
Adaptive Mode
Trigger angle of 65 +/- 20 (this will need adjusting to line up the marks)
Multitooth - 24 teeth - 11 (eleven) tooth offset
Distributor - Rotary (Dont forget to set AuxOut as IGN Toggle)
Constant Charge - 4.5ms - Falling (5.2ms is safe)
These settings will fire it up, then line up the timing with the trigger angle.
If you installed as my webpage says, a tooth offset of 3 is required as stated on the page.
Be warned, I have seen alot of pulleys put on rebuilt motors with them out by 90 or 180 degrees. Many say it cannot be done because of an offset bolt pattern but it CAN be done if the original pulley was replaced.
I hope this gets you going.
--
Matt
Hitman Injection Tuning
1. Rotate engine until Yellow Mark lines up with the pointer.
2. Remove CAS
3. Down near the gear on the CAS is a punch mark. Not the ones with the roll-pin, but an actual punch mark. Line this up perfectly with the notch sticking out of the alloy body of the CAS.
4. Insert CAS without knocking the CAS out of alignment. It will turn a little as the gear engage which is normal.
5. Lock down the 10mm bolt with it approx. in the middle of the slot.
Haltech settings for above installation, CAS wired direct to Haltech, no MSD8509's (as it should be).
Int. Reluctor and Gain of 2 for both Trigger and Home
Adaptive Mode
Trigger angle of 65 +/- 20 (this will need adjusting to line up the marks)
Multitooth - 24 teeth - 11 (eleven) tooth offset
Distributor - Rotary (Dont forget to set AuxOut as IGN Toggle)
Constant Charge - 4.5ms - Falling (5.2ms is safe)
These settings will fire it up, then line up the timing with the trigger angle.
If you installed as my webpage says, a tooth offset of 3 is required as stated on the page.
Be warned, I have seen alot of pulleys put on rebuilt motors with them out by 90 or 180 degrees. Many say it cannot be done because of an offset bolt pattern but it CAN be done if the original pulley was replaced.
I hope this gets you going.
--
Matt
Hitman Injection Tuning
So If I get maps from people where theres were set to the other instructions (lining up pointer to screws etc) I can just change the igntion setup to these details?
Last edited by MIKE-P-28; 07-22-02 at 01:13 PM.
07-22-02, 11:06 PM
#2
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I would be careful of what maps you use, I made sure that the maps I downloaded used the hitman timing method as if you look at some maps, the base timing is all different, but you know really it wouldn't matter all that much if you didn't run trailing ignition, whats important is the toggle signal reference, as the leading fires both wires at the same time any way, as long as you new what tooth was referenced to top dead center.
But seeing as most run trailing, my point is moot..
Use the hitman method, and print the hitman ignition setup parameters, then wheneever you get a new map compare the ignition setups, if its close or the same , use it, if not don't use it. I have not run across anyone yet though that is not running the Hitman CAS method(I think)..
Go to the new Haltech Forum, and download Rxtasy's Map or the one I uploaded which is Rxtasy's with some changes.. Really though, you should just use a pre-made map to get you in the ballpark, then retune it to your own car, after all thats the whole point of having a haltech over a stock ecu..Max
But seeing as most run trailing, my point is moot..
Use the hitman method, and print the hitman ignition setup parameters, then wheneever you get a new map compare the ignition setups, if its close or the same , use it, if not don't use it. I have not run across anyone yet though that is not running the Hitman CAS method(I think)..
Go to the new Haltech Forum, and download Rxtasy's Map or the one I uploaded which is Rxtasy's with some changes.. Really though, you should just use a pre-made map to get you in the ballpark, then retune it to your own car, after all thats the whole point of having a haltech over a stock ecu..Max
07-23-02, 02:54 PM
#3
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i'm confused, which way do you want to line up the cas? the easy way to do the factory way:
1) line up the yellow mark in the crank
2) take the little nubbin out of the cas cover
3) install cas so that the tooth wheel with 2 teeth on it lines up with the hole in the cover, and the cas bolted in the same place that the facotry had it, or the middle
the thing with the haltech is that you have to tell it tdc is tdc, it doesn't automatically know it. so you can tell it tdc from the stock cas setting or from the hitmans cas setting.
mike
1) line up the yellow mark in the crank
2) take the little nubbin out of the cas cover
3) install cas so that the tooth wheel with 2 teeth on it lines up with the hole in the cover, and the cas bolted in the same place that the facotry had it, or the middle
the thing with the haltech is that you have to tell it tdc is tdc, it doesn't automatically know it. so you can tell it tdc from the stock cas setting or from the hitmans cas setting.
mike
07-24-02, 10:06 PM
#6
No doubt it works, hes probally the best tuner out there.. I just think that for me, doing it the stock way and the way matt said it on yahoo newsgroup (pasted the quote) would be the best. The one he mentions on the site LOOKS confusing as hell, to make sure you are even close...
07-24-02, 10:08 PM
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with the haltech the oem CAS setup does not really apply. Hitman has given you a way to set the CAS easily. it works if done correctly. what he is helping you achieve is the setup that is in the manual. the trigger needs to be installed approximately 90* BTDC. so if you crank back the engine 90* from TDC then you can install the CAS with the pointer pointing towards the pick up. after you have done either method you will need to zero the ignition. this involves checking the timing and adjusting the ECU ignition settings or moving the CAS. any MAP you get from someone else should have the ignition zeroed again to match the setup you have
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07-28-02, 10:24 PM
#11
Originally posted by fastrotaries
do i still need to zero the timing if i'm installing an already tune car in another car. (wreck) Same mods, just everything now is in a different body.
do i still need to zero the timing if i'm installing an already tune car in another car. (wreck) Same mods, just everything now is in a different body.
07-29-02, 08:42 AM
#12
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if you remove the engine and don't disturb the cas it should be no problem. but for me I would check all systems including the ignition timing after an engine change.
08-01-02, 05:04 AM
#13
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crap i did disturb the CAS......I'M SOOO STUPID. Once i zero the timing using the Htiman methods. How do i get it to the maps that came with the Haltech i got. Which were tuned to ALL the mods, including the engine that i have.
08-01-02, 08:27 AM
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zeroing the timing won't effect the timing map loaded into the ECU. zeroing just gives the ECU a reference point to work from. if you didn't zero the timing and it just happened when you installed the CAS the timing was 20*BTDC and you ran the engine and your timing MAP was set to run 18* of advance at a particular load point then you would end up with 38* of advance and have a potential disaster on your hands. after working with the programing software you should be able to load a new map and check the timing in a couple minutes. be safe and make sure this is done correctly as all the timing corrections are based on this setting. it sounds more complicated than it really is. and if you leave the CAS alone loading new maps will be simple only need to change the ignition setup information to match what your engine runs.
08-01-02, 04:44 PM
#15
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so i would have to zero in the timing and then slowly work back to what the original map was. i would like to use that since i KNOW it works and it's been proven for this application.
08-01-02, 07:07 PM
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to zero the timing go into the ignition setup and set the lock timing to zero or depending on the pulley setup it maybe easier to set the timing lock to 10*BTDC. start the engine(if possible) and use the timing light to make sure the timing is zero or 10*BTDC. you can move the CAS or adjust it in the setup page to get it right. then unlock the timing and your done. no need to change any maps just use the timing lock function. only thing that may need to be altered is the setup information.
08-02-02, 10:28 AM
#17
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I tried it last night. Ot install the CAS and i couldn't even Zero in the timing because it wouldn't start. Just kept cranking over. It did start once and there was a ton of fuel coming out of the exhaust.
08-02-02, 03:25 PM
#18
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if you can't get it close enough to start the engine. pull the plug on the fuel pump relay(relay with two orange wires) that way there is no fuel. then have someone crank the engine while you check the timing. best to have the battery charged ahead of time and use short bursts of cranking. once the timing is zeroed plug in the fuel pump relay and try to start again. I would double check everything once the engine is running. All this stuff sounds really difficult but once you have done it once you will see how it works.
08-04-02, 04:36 AM
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still nothing no signal to the hatech. O rpm's when cranking. i checked continuity and everygthing checked out ok. i even swapped out the cas with another spare one. Both worked a month ago, so i can't see them being bad. Right now i can't seem to get past this hurdle.
08-11-02, 04:47 PM
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There are two ways I have provided to get these motors running. The way that is said in the very first post here is the way to get the car running with the CAS in the position it came from the Mazda factory. The settings provided should have it fire right up and be fairly close to lined up, maybe +/- 5 degrees.
The way shown on the webpage is for the dummies because it is very easy to see if you have things right. The only difference is that the tooth offset is changed to match the new position of the CAS. You can install the CAS in ANY position and get the car running if you experiment with the Tooth Offset value. It is why you have an ECU like the Haltech, so you can adapt to any situation.
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
The way shown on the webpage is for the dummies because it is very easy to see if you have things right. The only difference is that the tooth offset is changed to match the new position of the CAS. You can install the CAS in ANY position and get the car running if you experiment with the Tooth Offset value. It is why you have an ECU like the Haltech, so you can adapt to any situation.
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
08-11-02, 05:43 PM
#22
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Originally posted by The_HITman
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
After pulling the stock harness and having a good hard look at it, I am suprised my car even ran, and even more suprised it didn't burn to the ground due to wires with cracked insulation and bare spots..
I removed as many of the stock wires and plugs as possible, even my original cas was so bad internally I had to find a replacement with good leads from the mag pickups..
And everything works so much better with good clean grounds..Max
08-11-02, 09:37 PM
#23
Originally posted by The_HITman
There are two ways I have provided to get these motors running. The way that is said in the very first post here is the way to get the car running with the CAS in the position it came from the Mazda factory. The settings provided should have it fire right up and be fairly close to lined up, maybe +/- 5 degrees.
The way shown on the webpage is for the dummies because it is very easy to see if you have things right. The only difference is that the tooth offset is changed to match the new position of the CAS. You can install the CAS in ANY position and get the car running if you experiment with the Tooth Offset value. It is why you have an ECU like the Haltech, so you can adapt to any situation.
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
There are two ways I have provided to get these motors running. The way that is said in the very first post here is the way to get the car running with the CAS in the position it came from the Mazda factory. The settings provided should have it fire right up and be fairly close to lined up, maybe +/- 5 degrees.
The way shown on the webpage is for the dummies because it is very easy to see if you have things right. The only difference is that the tooth offset is changed to match the new position of the CAS. You can install the CAS in ANY position and get the car running if you experiment with the Tooth Offset value. It is why you have an ECU like the Haltech, so you can adapt to any situation.
One thing for you guys to look out for is to PLEASE do not use the factory wiring loom if possible, at least not for the ignition system. You just bought a new ECU, use new wiring for it. You would not buy a new engine block and then use 20 year old spark plugs or 20 year old oil in it. It might take you 30 minutes longer to run the new wiring, but at least you know it will work and wont fail on you in the middle of a cold night somewhere. How many RX7 owners have wiring looms that are soft and flexible, and not cripsy cooked ? :-)
Im gonna do it with it set in the factory position... Thanks bigtime as always
08-12-02, 12:49 PM
#24
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yeah matt gets a big gold star by his name. i downloaded one of his maps for the 20b, and its about 90% there.
mike
mike
08-12-02, 02:14 PM
#25
Originally posted by j9fd3s
yeah matt gets a big gold star by his name. i downloaded one of his maps for the 20b, and its about 90% there.
mike
yeah matt gets a big gold star by his name. i downloaded one of his maps for the 20b, and its about 90% there.
mike
Im scared to take it somewhere here and them not know **** about it, at least if I do it wrong I can say its my fault!