Haltech need help - fc insanely hard to start - video and map included
12-22-11, 07:27 PM
#26
after all the parts you've sold me and all the posts you've made I expect better of you 
Setting the CAS is CAKE.
Easy enough. Just turn the crank by hand/ratchet & 19mm socket to the yellow mark on the pulley. Take a pic of it. We'll go from there.
Setting the CAS is CAKE.
Easy enough. Just turn the crank by hand/ratchet & 19mm socket to the yellow mark on the pulley. Take a pic of it. We'll go from there.
12-22-11, 07:29 PM
#27
yep, me too...been trying to not blow up this expensive motor...
give me a few...ill have to go find a stock pulley with the mark on it. my main pulley has been powdercoated so there is no yellow mark on it. i'm sure i can set it, i just dont want it to mess up my tune.
give me a few...ill have to go find a stock pulley with the mark on it. my main pulley has been powdercoated so there is no yellow mark on it. i'm sure i can set it, i just dont want it to mess up my tune.
12-22-11, 07:39 PM
#30
GOOD!!!! Now set your trigger angle to 65. Not 45. Then fix the primer map to look linear. Your car will start
edit
ok so the e6X has more to it than the E6k. you have some more ignition setup settings that I have and I am not sure what they mean. where did you get the base map from? The stickey in this haltech section should have something close to what you need.
edit
ok so the e6X has more to it than the E6k. you have some more ignition setup settings that I have and I am not sure what they mean. where did you get the base map from? The stickey in this haltech section should have something close to what you need.
Last edited by beefhole; 12-22-11 at 07:41 PM.
12-22-11, 07:46 PM
#32
oh i noticed something else, not a huge deal. Your timing is somewhat low under driving vacuum. I did not look at your boost maps so don't go changing those. Driving vacuum is 2000-4000 (cruising along). I've seen 30-40 degrees leading in my "research". I run 32 degrees in those ranges. You are only at 25. You can safely add more, it will do no harm.
12-22-11, 07:53 PM
#34
Just an FYI, when you change the trigger angle from 45 to 65 you will be advancing the timing by 20* across all load and rpm ranges. Even though a trigger angle of 65* looks and sounds right from what you have posted, you really need to shoot it with a timing light to ensure it is right after the change. If the timing has been that retarded, you'll be amazed at how much better it runs!
12-22-11, 08:07 PM
#36
wait what...
Put the cranking down to 10... the trigger angle to 65.. and wtf are doing on the 0 throttle map? 0 throttle map is NOT the 0RPM fuel map. Something totally different. It's used if you run a P-Port or a piston engine with a ludicrous cam. So you adjusted that for no reason. D'oh!
trigger angle of 65 is OK. even without doing it for sure with the timing light, the worst it could be is 2 degrees off with your settings. You won't blow the motor during cranking if you are 2 degrees off.
Put the cranking down to 10... the trigger angle to 65.. and wtf are doing on the 0 throttle map? 0 throttle map is NOT the 0RPM fuel map. Something totally different. It's used if you run a P-Port or a piston engine with a ludicrous cam. So you adjusted that for no reason. D'oh!
trigger angle of 65 is OK. even without doing it for sure with the timing light, the worst it could be is 2 degrees off with your settings. You won't blow the motor during cranking if you are 2 degrees off.
12-22-11, 08:28 PM
#37
derp!
https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-forum-62/download-haltech-base-maps-here-761825/
first one there could work for you. i didn't review it, but the description fits your setup ok
https://www.rx7club.com/haltech-forum-62/download-haltech-base-maps-here-761825/
first one there could work for you. i didn't review it, but the description fits your setup ok
12-22-11, 08:51 PM
#38
i took the timing down to 10 across the board, took the plugs out and cleaned them, and dialed the fuel down as you suggested. it started after about 5 seconds of cranking which is acceptable. if i set the timing to 65 degrees, it wont rev at all. i put it back to 45 and it revs fine. i am going to let it cool down and try again tomorrow when it is cold. hopefully it starts easy again.
12-22-11, 09:11 PM
#39
hmmm, i think the 65 trigger angle should help overall. 5 seconds is better than the video posted LOL. could be a bit better. could be the colder plugs though, I'm not an expert.
but as far as when the car was running... the throttle pump looked OK. the fuel maps looked OK. The ignition maps are OK. I am not sure how the E6X does trailing timing/split. Is that ignition map 2?
When you say it won't rev at all, what do you mean exactly? Does it bog? Hesitate? Completely stall and die?
Did you try any of the pre-made maps?
but as far as when the car was running... the throttle pump looked OK. the fuel maps looked OK. The ignition maps are OK. I am not sure how the E6X does trailing timing/split. Is that ignition map 2?
When you say it won't rev at all, what do you mean exactly? Does it bog? Hesitate? Completely stall and die?
Did you try any of the pre-made maps?
12-22-11, 09:14 PM
#40
it would bog down when you try to rev it. it would idle fine though. i am going to leave the rest of the maps alone because i dont want to affect the driveability of the car. it runs fine, just had a hard time starting. as you said, my priming map way way off.
12-22-11, 09:15 PM
#41
talking head
Just an FYI, when you change the trigger angle from 45 to 65 you will be advancing the timing by 20* across all load and rpm ranges. Even though a trigger angle of 65* looks and sounds right from what you have posted, you really need to shoot it with a timing light to ensure it is right after the change. If the timing has been that retarded, you'll be amazed at how much better it runs!
for those who i do not need to teach how to suck eggs -
the final trigger angle number number is relevant only to each individual CAS stab
the trigger angle number should be higher than 45 so to make the timing window wide enough to provide for the ignition advance required
in the OP's pics, he shows the motor lined up to the trailing mark ( 20ATDC ) and not to the leading 5 ATDC mark
OP--
disable the fuel pump fuse,, hook up the timing light , lock the timing to -5
and shift the trigger angle up or down while cranking , aiming to get the light and the 5ATDC mark to co-relate
if the number ends up less than 45 , choose one number less in the trigger tooth count and add 30 to the trigger angle
( which should amount to the same timing position, but provide a window with 30 more degrees in which the ecu can adjust the timing )
PS , not sure if its in the x software,, but you have a cranking threshold rpm,, it may pay to lift this to 400 rpm so it stays with crank fuelling ( all injectors and only leading spark ) longer
Last edited by bumpstart; 12-22-11 at 09:26 PM. Reason: PS
12-22-11, 09:41 PM
#43
now i am confused... the pulley looked like it was at the "yellow" stock mark and stabbed properly. Is that not the leading!? from there all the maps I've ever seen/downloaded are 65 degrees trigger angle. I run the same on my engine. At 15 PSI my engine has not blown up and pulls like a demon...
as far as bogging down I can understand. Your fuel maps are richer than mine (ms)... but I run smaller primaries and more timing. Add some more timing (under vacuum) and take some fuel out. For example, my car fully warm idles at load bar 5, 2ms fuel pulse and 13 degrees timing (I like the # 13). You have less timing and more fuel. From there, it is still richer in all the bars with less timing. If you can, put some stock primaries back on. It will lean out a bit... what does the wideband say?
as far as bogging down I can understand. Your fuel maps are richer than mine (ms)... but I run smaller primaries and more timing. Add some more timing (under vacuum) and take some fuel out. For example, my car fully warm idles at load bar 5, 2ms fuel pulse and 13 degrees timing (I like the # 13). You have less timing and more fuel. From there, it is still richer in all the bars with less timing. If you can, put some stock primaries back on. It will lean out a bit... what does the wideband say?
12-23-11, 06:52 AM
#44
now i am confused... the pulley looked like it was at the "yellow" stock mark and stabbed properly. Is that not the leading!? from there all the maps I've ever seen/downloaded are 65 degrees trigger angle. I run the same on my engine. At 15 PSI my engine has not blown up and pulls like a demon...
as far as bogging down I can understand. Your fuel maps are richer than mine (ms)... but I run smaller primaries and more timing. Add some more timing (under vacuum) and take some fuel out. For example, my car fully warm idles at load bar 5, 2ms fuel pulse and 13 degrees timing (I like the # 13). You have less timing and more fuel. From there, it is still richer in all the bars with less timing. If you can, put some stock primaries back on. It will lean out a bit... what does the wideband say?
as far as bogging down I can understand. Your fuel maps are richer than mine (ms)... but I run smaller primaries and more timing. Add some more timing (under vacuum) and take some fuel out. For example, my car fully warm idles at load bar 5, 2ms fuel pulse and 13 degrees timing (I like the # 13). You have less timing and more fuel. From there, it is still richer in all the bars with less timing. If you can, put some stock primaries back on. It will lean out a bit... what does the wideband say?
As Bumpstart said, the trigger angle is relevant to each individual collection of parts. You can't just say, this is the trigger angle and that's that. OP needs to back up a couple steps and start over with zeroing the trigger. There are how-to write ups on the board. Once he knows the timing he is asking for is what he is getting, then he can move on with his issue.
Bumpstart is also right that timing will be retarded. I had it backward in my head. That's why it won't rev for you. Apparently, the CAS was not stabbed correctly but the timing is close to be zeroed for however it was stabbed. Again, I would go back and re-stab the CAS and re-zero the timing. A trigger angle of 45* is a little low. It should be around 50-55* at a minimum.
12-23-11, 07:02 AM
#45
Finally downloaded your map-
You have the trigger edge set to rising. This is wrong and is probably the reason your trigger angle doesn't jive. It's also dangerous, as the timing will drift wildly with RPM. Change the trigger edge to falling, home edge is also falling. Once you do that, go back and re-zero the timing.
Don't adjust the zero throttle map. The function is not enabled in your map anyway and you don't need it.
Split timing is adjusted through Ignition Trail Map 1 and 2. Map 1 is 2000 RPM and below. Map 2 is above 2000 RPM. Your map looks acceptable here.
Lower cranking timing to 10* as discussed before.
Do all that and it will be a much happier engine.
You have the trigger edge set to rising. This is wrong and is probably the reason your trigger angle doesn't jive. It's also dangerous, as the timing will drift wildly with RPM. Change the trigger edge to falling, home edge is also falling. Once you do that, go back and re-zero the timing.
Don't adjust the zero throttle map. The function is not enabled in your map anyway and you don't need it.
Split timing is adjusted through Ignition Trail Map 1 and 2. Map 1 is 2000 RPM and below. Map 2 is above 2000 RPM. Your map looks acceptable here.
Lower cranking timing to 10* as discussed before.
Do all that and it will be a much happier engine.
12-23-11, 08:19 AM
#46
Finally downloaded your map-
You have the trigger edge set to rising. This is wrong and is probably the reason your trigger angle doesn't jive. It's also dangerous, as the timing will drift wildly with RPM. Change the trigger edge to falling, home edge is also falling. Once you do that, go back and re-zero the timing.
Don't adjust the zero throttle map. The function is not enabled in your map anyway and you don't need it.
Split timing is adjusted through Ignition Trail Map 1 and 2. Map 1 is 2000 RPM and below. Map 2 is above 2000 RPM. Your map looks acceptable here.
Lower cranking timing to 10* as discussed before.
Do all that and it will be a much happier engine.
You have the trigger edge set to rising. This is wrong and is probably the reason your trigger angle doesn't jive. It's also dangerous, as the timing will drift wildly with RPM. Change the trigger edge to falling, home edge is also falling. Once you do that, go back and re-zero the timing.
Don't adjust the zero throttle map. The function is not enabled in your map anyway and you don't need it.
Split timing is adjusted through Ignition Trail Map 1 and 2. Map 1 is 2000 RPM and below. Map 2 is above 2000 RPM. Your map looks acceptable here.
Lower cranking timing to 10* as discussed before.
Do all that and it will be a much happier engine.
Last edited by 87 t-66; 12-23-11 at 08:22 AM.
12-23-11, 08:33 AM
#47
It's really not an option to leave what you have alone. It's completely wrong the way it is. With the rising edge trigger you really don't know what the timing is doing as the revs change. It's a small wonder you haven't blown it up running it like this.
This is the zero timing how-to. Essentially, by zeroing the timing, you know when you tell the ECU to provide x degrees advance, that is what you're getting. Right now, you really can't do that with the settings you have. You're asking for x and the ECU may be giving x, y, or z.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...9&postcount=18
12-23-11, 11:51 AM
#49
As Bumpstart said, the trigger angle is relevant to each individual collection of parts. You can't just say, this is the trigger angle and that's that. OP needs to back up a couple steps and start over with zeroing the trigger. There are how-to write ups on the board. Once he knows the timing he is asking for is what he is getting, then he can move on with his issue.
Bumpstart is also right that timing will be retarded. I had it backward in my head. That's why it won't rev for you. Apparently, the CAS was not stabbed correctly but the timing is close to be zeroed for however it was stabbed. Again, I would go back and re-stab the CAS and re-zero the timing. A trigger angle of 45* is a little low. It should be around 50-55* at a minimum.
Bumpstart is also right that timing will be retarded. I had it backward in my head. That's why it won't rev for you. Apparently, the CAS was not stabbed correctly but the timing is close to be zeroed for however it was stabbed. Again, I would go back and re-stab the CAS and re-zero the timing. A trigger angle of 45* is a little low. It should be around 50-55* at a minimum.
12-23-11, 03:28 PM
#50
You're right. 65* should be right in the ballpark. However, it's bad to tell someone run this and think it's right. The timing needs to be checked. It's the single most important part of setting up the ECU. Simply stabbing the ECU per the FSM isn't going to cut it. How much adjustment is in the CAS? How much slop is in the drive gear? With the rotary, if you're 5* off you're breaking stuff. In the end, I would expect the trigger angle to be somewhere near 65*, just like you said. But the OP needs to check it and not just set it and go out and hammer.
Also, the pic above of the pulley that references the yellow mark; the yellow mark is the one on the right. You have the engine sitting at -20 in the pic.
Also, the pic above of the pulley that references the yellow mark; the yellow mark is the one on the right. You have the engine sitting at -20 in the pic.