Haltech Haltech staging question on the sport series
04-28-10, 09:05 PM
#1
Haltech staging question on the sport series
I posted the following over at the haltech site, but Im impatient and know more people are looking here. the following is for a sport2000 ecu. I also attached the log from the run.
"How does the haltech calculate fuel useage with staged injection set to primary hold?
I believe that the ECU will hold the last value of the primary injectors and then the values entered into the cells to the right of the staging bar are what the secondary injectors fire at. So if the primary injector was firing at 5ms before the staging bar it will continue to fire at 5ms for everything after the staging bar and that the values entered into the map are entirely controlling the secondary injectors. Is this right?
The "problem" im having is that the haltech tells me im at 98% duty cycle when I have enough injector that I should be somewhere around 50%. Its a rotary motor, 850/1680cc injectors. At 8000rpm and 10psi 7.322ms is my logged injector on time when the output value is 2.345 and that the duty cycle is 98%. There is NO WAY im using 98% of my avaiable injectors. Why is the logged injection time so different from the output value? Will I need to switch to common mode and retune?"
"How does the haltech calculate fuel useage with staged injection set to primary hold?
I believe that the ECU will hold the last value of the primary injectors and then the values entered into the cells to the right of the staging bar are what the secondary injectors fire at. So if the primary injector was firing at 5ms before the staging bar it will continue to fire at 5ms for everything after the staging bar and that the values entered into the map are entirely controlling the secondary injectors. Is this right?
The "problem" im having is that the haltech tells me im at 98% duty cycle when I have enough injector that I should be somewhere around 50%. Its a rotary motor, 850/1680cc injectors. At 8000rpm and 10psi 7.322ms is my logged injector on time when the output value is 2.345 and that the duty cycle is 98%. There is NO WAY im using 98% of my avaiable injectors. Why is the logged injection time so different from the output value? Will I need to switch to common mode and retune?"
04-28-10, 11:17 PM
#2
Tenseiga
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I posted the following over at the haltech site, but Im impatient and know more people are looking here. the following is for a sport2000 ecu. I also attached the log from the run.
"How does the haltech calculate fuel useage with staged injection set to primary hold?
I believe that the ECU will hold the last value of the primary injectors and then the values entered into the cells to the right of the staging bar are what the secondary injectors fire at. So if the primary injector was firing at 5ms before the staging bar it will continue to fire at 5ms for everything after the staging bar and that the values entered into the map are entirely controlling the secondary injectors. Is this right?
The "problem" im having is that the haltech tells me im at 98% duty cycle when I have enough injector that I should be somewhere around 50%. Its a rotary motor, 850/1680cc injectors. At 8000rpm and 10psi 7.322ms is my logged injector on time when the output value is 2.345 and that the duty cycle is 98%. There is NO WAY im using 98% of my avaiable injectors. Why is the logged injection time so different from the output value? Will I need to switch to common mode and retune?"
"How does the haltech calculate fuel useage with staged injection set to primary hold?
I believe that the ECU will hold the last value of the primary injectors and then the values entered into the cells to the right of the staging bar are what the secondary injectors fire at. So if the primary injector was firing at 5ms before the staging bar it will continue to fire at 5ms for everything after the staging bar and that the values entered into the map are entirely controlling the secondary injectors. Is this right?
The "problem" im having is that the haltech tells me im at 98% duty cycle when I have enough injector that I should be somewhere around 50%. Its a rotary motor, 850/1680cc injectors. At 8000rpm and 10psi 7.322ms is my logged injector on time when the output value is 2.345 and that the duty cycle is 98%. There is NO WAY im using 98% of my avaiable injectors. Why is the logged injection time so different from the output value? Will I need to switch to common mode and retune?"
seems right to me
At 8000rpm and 10psi 7.322ms
8000/60 = 133 rpm/sec
1/133 = .007518 ms
7.322/7.518 = 97%
High RPM take alot of injector and you should log your fuel pressure.
Just for comparison sake - 7k is about 85 percent of your duty.
I could see your car taking that much fuel if you got a larger turbo and richer tune.
What rwhp? That should give you the best indication.
I ran that inj setup on pump and it's not as much as you think (it was good to 15psi for me on a 62-1)
04-29-10, 12:08 AM
#3
Your math confims that 7.3 is 97% of 7.5 and that 7.5 is the max available ontime at 8000rpm.
850/1680 on pump with 10:1 AFR should handle over 500hp with reasonable duty cycles. If I am truly seeing 97% duty cycle my AFR's should be somthing like 6:1. Same setup other than a PFC and 550/1680's I had 67% duty cycle at 14psi and 8000rpm. The injector sizing is not a problem. the problem is within the haltech setup or software. Its also a potentially glitched log file but im waiting on the other logs from my tuner.
also fuel pressure is logged.
850/1680 on pump with 10:1 AFR should handle over 500hp with reasonable duty cycles. If I am truly seeing 97% duty cycle my AFR's should be somthing like 6:1. Same setup other than a PFC and 550/1680's I had 67% duty cycle at 14psi and 8000rpm. The injector sizing is not a problem. the problem is within the haltech setup or software. Its also a potentially glitched log file but im waiting on the other logs from my tuner.
also fuel pressure is logged.
04-29-10, 12:28 AM
#4
Ignition Autosport
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Saw your post on Haltech Forum but don't have a definitive answer.
Certainly sounds like the hold function of primaries is causing something odd. I realise you don't want to retune with common mode, but am curious what the difference in results would be.
Do you have capability to scope a primary and secondary injector over a power run? Would be interesting to see what they are actually doing with the current setup.
Certainly sounds like the hold function of primaries is causing something odd. I realise you don't want to retune with common mode, but am curious what the difference in results would be.
Do you have capability to scope a primary and secondary injector over a power run? Would be interesting to see what they are actually doing with the current setup.
04-29-10, 01:03 AM
#5
My tuner has a nice scope, it would give concrete answers! If I cant get a reasonable solution Ill bug him to set things up.
Im actually curious about trying common mode as well, the basemap was set on primary hold and we ran with it not giving any thought at all on if it was the right way to go. If everything is actually working like it should be I cant think of a good reason to run common mode other than getting the last little bit out of the primary injectors.
Im actually curious about trying common mode as well, the basemap was set on primary hold and we ran with it not giving any thought at all on if it was the right way to go. If everything is actually working like it should be I cant think of a good reason to run common mode other than getting the last little bit out of the primary injectors.
04-29-10, 08:02 AM
#7
Im not sure about the EGT correction, I noticed that too but ignored it as the EGT correcton table is set to 0. Probably should have turned the correction right off.
The log I posted was taken with the laptop on the dyno, Doesnt laptop logging capture all active ecu parameters? Ive been wanting to get another log for comparison and will once the weather gets nice again. Ill post that when I can.
Here is the map as it was when the log was taken, its not complete, other than the air temp correction and transient throttle tables its good up to 10psi. Also logged wideband readings are wrong we tuned using the dyno's wideband to ~11.3 with a dip to ~10.8 at redline.
The log I posted was taken with the laptop on the dyno, Doesnt laptop logging capture all active ecu parameters? Ive been wanting to get another log for comparison and will once the weather gets nice again. Ill post that when I can.
Here is the map as it was when the log was taken, its not complete, other than the air temp correction and transient throttle tables its good up to 10psi. Also logged wideband readings are wrong we tuned using the dyno's wideband to ~11.3 with a dip to ~10.8 at redline.
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04-29-10, 08:48 AM
#8
EFI Tech Wannabe
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I have not seen the logs yet, but just wanted to add that.
