Haltech Closed loop boost controll
08-15-06, 11:13 AM
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Closed loop boost controll
Hi, I am hoping someone can share their settings for closed loop boost control. I am using the Haltech solenoid.
I set the freq to 35 and 30, and tried the start duty all over the place, tried the solenoid inverted and normal. The solenoid is hooked up, so that when the circuit is not energized it has a path from the wastegate to vaccum in front of the turbo. When the circuit is energized, the path is from the pressure side of the turbo to the wastegate to open the wastegate.
The problem is the boost is all over the place.
Thanks,
I set the freq to 35 and 30, and tried the start duty all over the place, tried the solenoid inverted and normal. The solenoid is hooked up, so that when the circuit is not energized it has a path from the wastegate to vaccum in front of the turbo. When the circuit is energized, the path is from the pressure side of the turbo to the wastegate to open the wastegate.
The problem is the boost is all over the place.
Thanks,
08-15-06, 01:55 PM
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Boost control......
Here is my recommendation:
The Haltech boost solenoid is recommended to be run at 33hz, and is a simple solenoid. So it will require 12v(switched) to the solenoid, and also the PWM output, to the 2nd wire. They are NOT polar sensitive.
1. Start off running OPEN LOOP boost control (Turbo Wastegate)... Start off with a LOW Duty Cycle(around 25 or so) and see what boost the turbo makes... Depending on the turbo/wastegate system you may want to start lower...
KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR AFR'S WHEN PERFORMING ANY OF THIS.
Okay, now that you know how much boost it makes at that duty cycle, you can slowly bring it up, untill you are making the desired amount of boost. Keeping in mind that OPEN LOOP does not take into account atmospheric conditions(air temp, baro..etc) So you will have to anticipate the effects that these will have on the ability of your car to make boost...
Now that you have "dialed in" a duty cycle to which you are getting your target boost level, you can:
2. Select the PWM as CLOSED LOOP boost control. You can now use the previous duty cycle in your START DUTY CYCLE MAP. This is where the ECU will initially open that solenoid valve to. My recommendation, is using maybe 5-10% less to start out with, so you will reduce the chance of boost spike.
Now, your TARGET BOOST MAP, will be where you tell your ECU how much boost(MAP referenced) you want your turbo system to be running at.
Being that it is a 2d map, you can raise or lower the target boost level at different RPM points, to further "dial in" your set up.
This should answer most of your question.
At the same time, you should make sure that the mechanics of your setup are sound, for the boost you want to run... if your wastegate is unable to control the amount of exhaust gas efficiently, then you will run into the situation of boost spike or boost creep, and that has been the demise of many engines...
Here is my recommendation:
The Haltech boost solenoid is recommended to be run at 33hz, and is a simple solenoid. So it will require 12v(switched) to the solenoid, and also the PWM output, to the 2nd wire. They are NOT polar sensitive.
1. Start off running OPEN LOOP boost control (Turbo Wastegate)... Start off with a LOW Duty Cycle(around 25 or so) and see what boost the turbo makes... Depending on the turbo/wastegate system you may want to start lower...
KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR AFR'S WHEN PERFORMING ANY OF THIS.
Okay, now that you know how much boost it makes at that duty cycle, you can slowly bring it up, untill you are making the desired amount of boost. Keeping in mind that OPEN LOOP does not take into account atmospheric conditions(air temp, baro..etc) So you will have to anticipate the effects that these will have on the ability of your car to make boost...
Now that you have "dialed in" a duty cycle to which you are getting your target boost level, you can:
2. Select the PWM as CLOSED LOOP boost control. You can now use the previous duty cycle in your START DUTY CYCLE MAP. This is where the ECU will initially open that solenoid valve to. My recommendation, is using maybe 5-10% less to start out with, so you will reduce the chance of boost spike.
Now, your TARGET BOOST MAP, will be where you tell your ECU how much boost(MAP referenced) you want your turbo system to be running at.
Being that it is a 2d map, you can raise or lower the target boost level at different RPM points, to further "dial in" your set up.
This should answer most of your question.
At the same time, you should make sure that the mechanics of your setup are sound, for the boost you want to run... if your wastegate is unable to control the amount of exhaust gas efficiently, then you will run into the situation of boost spike or boost creep, and that has been the demise of many engines...
Last edited by davedge; 08-15-06 at 01:57 PM.
08-15-06, 03:40 PM
#4
The X doesn't do closed loop. You would dial in the duty cycle the same as what Dave described. At that point you are at the mercy of atmospheric conditions as he aluded to. When it's cold you make more boost. It's a shitty setup that's best left unused IMO.
08-15-06, 06:10 PM
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Yes I have an E8. Thank you very much for the reply, and thanks for the concern for my engine. The wastgate is ported beyond what is required, and there are no problems keeping the boost down. And the fuel and IGN maps are conservative enough to handle as much boost as these turbo's will throw at them.
Ok will it work and be predictable the way I have it hooked up?
Meaning 0% duty cycle means boost will build untill the wastegate is opened by exhaust pressure, which BTW happens around 17PSI.
100% duty cycle and the wastgate will open at its default setting which BTW is 8PSI.
Does is need the reverse of this?
Next ? how does the closed loop boost trim work? It seems like less of a trim and more like a switch.
Ok one more ?, Does the start duty cycle act like a threshold which the PWM won't go past.
Ok will it work and be predictable the way I have it hooked up?
Meaning 0% duty cycle means boost will build untill the wastegate is opened by exhaust pressure, which BTW happens around 17PSI.
100% duty cycle and the wastgate will open at its default setting which BTW is 8PSI.
Does is need the reverse of this?
Next ? how does the closed loop boost trim work? It seems like less of a trim and more like a switch.
Ok one more ?, Does the start duty cycle act like a threshold which the PWM won't go past.
08-16-06, 01:38 AM
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100% Duty Cycle refers to the solenoid bleeding off 100% of it capability to atmosphere(or to the turbo inlet pipe if set up that way) So at 0%, you are running off of WG spring, as if you have the vaccume direct to the actuator.
Start Duty cycle refers to the initial activation of the solenoid. This is NOT going to be MAP referenced, but the fact that the solenoid is activated, means you are withing 10% of your target boost level. This is the reason that I went over using the OPEN LOOP boost settings first, then you know that the initial START DUTY CYCLE, is within the range of your target boost level, as selected in your TARGET BOOST MAP.
After this initial point, the CLOSED LOOP function will kick in, and the duty cycle will be controlled by the ECU, to maintain the TARGET BOOST level.....
Claudio, as Chris pointed out, the E6X does NOT have the ability to run CLOSED LOOP boost control, and also, you will have atmospheric conditions, affecting the boost that your engine receives. This is not necessarily the end of the world though... As long as you are able to dial in your car before taking it on the track/down the strip, you should be able to run a "peak/hold" of your MAP, and dial your "target" boost in that way... just start conservative, then adjust accordingly.
And at the risk of sounding like I'm repeating myself, make sure you watch your AFR's when dialing in boost, as you are drastically changing the VE of your engine...
Hope this clears things up...
Start Duty cycle refers to the initial activation of the solenoid. This is NOT going to be MAP referenced, but the fact that the solenoid is activated, means you are withing 10% of your target boost level. This is the reason that I went over using the OPEN LOOP boost settings first, then you know that the initial START DUTY CYCLE, is within the range of your target boost level, as selected in your TARGET BOOST MAP.
After this initial point, the CLOSED LOOP function will kick in, and the duty cycle will be controlled by the ECU, to maintain the TARGET BOOST level.....
Claudio, as Chris pointed out, the E6X does NOT have the ability to run CLOSED LOOP boost control, and also, you will have atmospheric conditions, affecting the boost that your engine receives. This is not necessarily the end of the world though... As long as you are able to dial in your car before taking it on the track/down the strip, you should be able to run a "peak/hold" of your MAP, and dial your "target" boost in that way... just start conservative, then adjust accordingly.
And at the risk of sounding like I'm repeating myself, make sure you watch your AFR's when dialing in boost, as you are drastically changing the VE of your engine...
Hope this clears things up...
Last edited by davedge; 08-16-06 at 01:41 AM.
08-16-06, 03:15 AM
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"100% Duty Cycle refers to the solenoid bleeding off 100% of it capability to atmosphere(or to the turbo inlet pipe if set up that way) So at 0%, you are running off of WG spring, as if you have the vaccume direct to the actuator."
What I was saying is that I have it backwards. I was hoping that the suction from the turbo inlet would help the turbo spool up a little faster. And it does seem to. I was starting to get it dialed in but it jumps around alot. I will hook it up the other way and try that.
Do you know by chance how the closed loop trim works?
Thanks,,,
What I was saying is that I have it backwards. I was hoping that the suction from the turbo inlet would help the turbo spool up a little faster. And it does seem to. I was starting to get it dialed in but it jumps around alot. I will hook it up the other way and try that.
Do you know by chance how the closed loop trim works?
Thanks,,,
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08-16-06, 01:23 PM
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The closed loop trim function is basically connecting a Trim Module up in to ANY of your SPARE A/D inputs.
Select the channel in the software as CLOSED LOOP BOOST TRIM. The only properties that you will need to set at this point is the Boost Trim Decrease. What this refers to, is the amount(in KPa) that the trim module will decrease from your TARGET BOOST MAP, at the minimum(furthest COUNTER-CLOCKWISE) point on the trim ****.
So if your TARGET BOOST MAP, is set to, say, 150 KPa, and you select a BOOST TRIM DECREASE of 50KPa, then you will be able to make adjustments between 15KPa(furthest CLOCKWISE), and 100KPa(Furthest COUNTER-CLOCKWISE)
Does this answer your question for the most part?
Select the channel in the software as CLOSED LOOP BOOST TRIM. The only properties that you will need to set at this point is the Boost Trim Decrease. What this refers to, is the amount(in KPa) that the trim module will decrease from your TARGET BOOST MAP, at the minimum(furthest COUNTER-CLOCKWISE) point on the trim ****.
So if your TARGET BOOST MAP, is set to, say, 150 KPa, and you select a BOOST TRIM DECREASE of 50KPa, then you will be able to make adjustments between 15KPa(furthest CLOCKWISE), and 100KPa(Furthest COUNTER-CLOCKWISE)
Does this answer your question for the most part?
